[time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 100, Issue 73
Eric Haskell
eric_haskell at hotmail.com
Mon Nov 19 22:38:34 UTC 2012
I am interested.
Eric Haskell
> From: time-nuts-request at febo.com
> Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 100, Issue 73
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 20:10:21 +0000
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work (cdelect at juno.com)
> 2. Re: Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work (Don Latham)
> 3. Re: Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work (EWKehren at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work (Volker Esper)
> 5. Re: Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work (Daniel Mendes)
> 6. Re: Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work (Erno Peres)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:04:12 -0800
> From: cdelect at juno.com
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work
> Message-ID: <20121119.110426.1555.16399 at mailpop06.dca.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> "MINI-TIC" for DMTD work
>
>
> Hi Everyone!
>
> I've been testing a Miniature 2 channel TIC that Bert Kehren and Juerg
> Koegel
> and Richard Mc Corkle have designed.
>
> It has 9 digits/Sec. and with a 1HZ offset in the DMTD unit gives a
> resolution of 1X10-15th at 10 MHz, 2X10-15 with a 5 MHz input, when
> measuring
> Allan deviation. The 200 MHz version doubles the resolution.
>
> Of course the baseline performance of the DMTD unit and the stability of
> the DMTD reference determines the actual accuracy you can obtain.
>
> (My dual mixer has a baseline of approx. 8X10-14th at 1 second and my
> best reference is 4X10-13th at 1 second.)
>
> The "MINI" takes a 5 or 10 MHz reference that only has to be stable to
> parts in 10-8th/sec.
> I used a neat 14PIN ovenized DIP clock chip I got on eBay and recently
> discussed on the list.
>
> The reference is multiplied to 100Mhz for use as the counters clock.
>
> The "MINI" is about 2.5 by 2 inches and has only 5 chips. Two opto
> couplers an
> op amp for two analog channels are also on the board. If run on 5 volt a
> 3.3 V
> regulator is also on the board. Power required is +5VDC 0.05 A and +- 12
>
> (for the RS232 interface)
>
> It also has two pins you can individually ground to measure the period of
> the beat
> note from either channel.
>
> This allows you to adjust the offset frequency quickly and accurately.
>
> I installed the "MINI" into a 1U chassis with the power supply and also
> added "heartbeat" LEDS for each channel to show the presence of the 1PPS
> inputs.
>
> I have plotted several Rubidium and many Quartz using the "MINI"
> simultaneously with a SR620 counter/timer. The plots are "identical"! So
> much
> so that I am going to "retire" and sell my SR620!
>
> I understand work is complete on a 4 channel counters and Bluetooth
> interface,
> and work is ongoing on a LCD.
>
> The "MINI" material cost is less than $25.00 depending on how many
> boards are ordered!
>
> Resoution based on clock frequency and beat frequency:
>
> Carrier[MHz] Beat [Hz] Heterodyne TIC [ns] Resolution
> 10101.00E+06101.00E-14
> 1011.00E+07101.00E-15
> 1011.00E+0755.00E-16
> 10101.00E+0655.00E-15
> 5105.00E+05102.00E-14
> 515.00E+06102.00E-15
> 515.00E+0651.00E-15
> 5105.00E+0551.00E-14
> ____________________________________________________________
> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50aa82cb1214a2ca03f8st04duc
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:48:16 -0700 (MST)
> From: "Don Latham" <djl at montana.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work
> Message-ID:
> <3fad6cf62dc04c503134949a532b3ae0.squirrel at webmail.montana.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> uh, ok, how do we order the boards?
> Don L
>
> cdelect at juno.com
> >
> > "MINI-TIC" for DMTD work
> >
> >
> > Hi Everyone!
> >
> > I've been testing a Miniature 2 channel TIC that Bert Kehren and Juerg
> > Koegel
> > and Richard Mc Corkle have designed.
> >
> > It has 9 digits/Sec. and with a 1HZ offset in the DMTD unit gives a
> > resolution of 1X10-15th at 10 MHz, 2X10-15 with a 5 MHz input, when
> > measuring
> > Allan deviation. The 200 MHz version doubles the resolution.
> >
> > Of course the baseline performance of the DMTD unit and the stability of
> > the DMTD reference determines the actual accuracy you can obtain.
> >
> > (My dual mixer has a baseline of approx. 8X10-14th at 1 second and my
> > best reference is 4X10-13th at 1 second.)
> >
> > The "MINI" takes a 5 or 10 MHz reference that only has to be stable to
> > parts in 10-8th/sec.
> > I used a neat 14PIN ovenized DIP clock chip I got on eBay and recently
> > discussed on the list.
> >
> > The reference is multiplied to 100Mhz for use as the counters clock.
> >
> > The "MINI" is about 2.5 by 2 inches and has only 5 chips. Two opto
> > couplers an
> > op amp for two analog channels are also on the board. If run on 5 volt a
> > 3.3 V
> > regulator is also on the board. Power required is +5VDC 0.05 A and +-
> > 12
> >
> > (for the RS232 interface)
> >
> > It also has two pins you can individually ground to measure the period
> > of
> > the beat
> > note from either channel.
> >
> > This allows you to adjust the offset frequency quickly and accurately.
> >
> > I installed the "MINI" into a 1U chassis with the power supply and also
> > added "heartbeat" LEDS for each channel to show the presence of the 1PPS
> > inputs.
> >
> > I have plotted several Rubidium and many Quartz using the "MINI"
> > simultaneously with a SR620 counter/timer. The plots are "identical"! So
> > much
> > so that I am going to "retire" and sell my SR620!
> >
> > I understand work is complete on a 4 channel counters and Bluetooth
> > interface,
> > and work is ongoing on a LCD.
> >
> > The "MINI" material cost is less than $25.00 depending on how many
> > boards are ordered!
> >
> > Resoution based on clock frequency and beat frequency:
> >
> > Carrier[MHz] Beat [Hz] Heterodyne TIC [ns] Resolution
> > 10101.00E+06101.00E-14
> > 1011.00E+07101.00E-15
> > 1011.00E+0755.00E-16
> > 10101.00E+0655.00E-15
> > 5105.00E+05102.00E-14
> > 515.00E+06102.00E-15
> > 515.00E+0651.00E-15
> > 5105.00E+0551.00E-14
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> > Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50aa82cb1214a2ca03f8st04duc
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
>
> --
> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
> De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century.
> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
> Ghost in the Shell
>
>
> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
> Six Mile Systems LLP
> 17850 Six Mile Road
> POB 134
> Huson, MT, 59846
> VOX 406-626-4304
> www.lightningforensics.com
> www.sixmilesystems.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:53:16 -0500 (EST)
> From: EWKehren at aol.com
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work
> Message-ID: <2822f.5cd0eab7.3ddbe82c at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Don
> lets see how much interest and which counter and in the 2 channel it is 3
> PIC's and 1 G/A and the 4 channel 5 PIC's and 2 G/A. Easy to solder Juerg
> and I are 70+ so soldering is a key consideration
> Bert Kehren.
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/19/2012 2:48:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> djl at montana.com writes:
>
> uh, ok, how do we order the boards?
> Don L
>
> cdelect at juno.com
> >
> > "MINI-TIC" for DMTD work
> >
> >
> > Hi Everyone!
> >
> > I've been testing a Miniature 2 channel TIC that Bert Kehren and Juerg
> > Koegel
> > and Richard Mc Corkle have designed.
> >
> > It has 9 digits/Sec. and with a 1HZ offset in the DMTD unit gives a
> > resolution of 1X10-15th at 10 MHz, 2X10-15 with a 5 MHz input, when
> > measuring
> > Allan deviation. The 200 MHz version doubles the resolution.
> >
> > Of course the baseline performance of the DMTD unit and the stability of
> > the DMTD reference determines the actual accuracy you can obtain.
> >
> > (My dual mixer has a baseline of approx. 8X10-14th at 1 second and my
> > best reference is 4X10-13th at 1 second.)
> >
> > The "MINI" takes a 5 or 10 MHz reference that only has to be stable to
> > parts in 10-8th/sec.
> > I used a neat 14PIN ovenized DIP clock chip I got on eBay and recently
> > discussed on the list.
> >
> > The reference is multiplied to 100Mhz for use as the counters clock.
> >
> > The "MINI" is about 2.5 by 2 inches and has only 5 chips. Two opto
> > couplers an
> > op amp for two analog channels are also on the board. If run on 5 volt a
> > 3.3 V
> > regulator is also on the board. Power required is +5VDC 0.05 A and +-
> > 12
> >
> > (for the RS232 interface)
> >
> > It also has two pins you can individually ground to measure the period
> > of
> > the beat
> > note from either channel.
> >
> > This allows you to adjust the offset frequency quickly and accurately.
> >
> > I installed the "MINI" into a 1U chassis with the power supply and also
> > added "heartbeat" LEDS for each channel to show the presence of the 1PPS
> > inputs.
> >
> > I have plotted several Rubidium and many Quartz using the "MINI"
> > simultaneously with a SR620 counter/timer. The plots are "identical"! So
> > much
> > so that I am going to "retire" and sell my SR620!
> >
> > I understand work is complete on a 4 channel counters and Bluetooth
> > interface,
> > and work is ongoing on a LCD.
> >
> > The "MINI" material cost is less than $25.00 depending on how many
> > boards are ordered!
> >
> > Resoution based on clock frequency and beat frequency:
> >
> > Carrier[MHz] Beat [Hz] Heterodyne TIC [ns] Resolution
> > 10101.00E+06101.00E-14
> > 1011.00E+07101.00E-15
> > 1011.00E+0755.00E-16
> > 10101.00E+0655.00E-15
> > 5105.00E+05102.00E-14
> > 515.00E+06102.00E-15
> > 515.00E+0651.00E-15
> > 5105.00E+0551.00E-14
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> > Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50aa82cb1214a2ca03f8st04duc
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
>
> --
> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
> De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century.
> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
> Ghost in the Shell
>
>
> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
> Six Mile Systems LLP
> 17850 Six Mile Road
> POB 134
> Huson, MT, 59846
> VOX 406-626-4304
> www.lightningforensics.com
> www.sixmilesystems.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 20:57:36 +0100
> From: Volker Esper <ailer2 at t-online.de>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work
> Message-ID: <50AA8F30.5020307 at t-online.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> I'd like to be on the list. Definitely. Where do I have to pay?
>
> Volker
>
>
> Am 19.11.2012 20:04, schrieb cdelect at juno.com:
> >
> > "MINI-TIC" for DMTD work
> >
> >
> > Hi Everyone!
> >
> > I've been testing a Miniature 2 channel TIC that Bert Kehren and Juerg
> > Koegel
> > and Richard Mc Corkle have designed.
> >
> > It has 9 digits/Sec. and with a 1HZ offset in the DMTD unit gives a
> > resolution of 1X10-15th at 10 MHz, 2X10-15 with a 5 MHz input, when
> > measuring
> > Allan deviation. The 200 MHz version doubles the resolution.
> >
> > Of course the baseline performance of the DMTD unit and the stability of
> > the DMTD reference determines the actual accuracy you can obtain.
> >
> > (My dual mixer has a baseline of approx. 8X10-14th at 1 second and my
> > best reference is 4X10-13th at 1 second.)
> >
> > The "MINI" takes a 5 or 10 MHz reference that only has to be stable to
> > parts in 10-8th/sec.
> > I used a neat 14PIN ovenized DIP clock chip I got on eBay and recently
> > discussed on the list.
> >
> > The reference is multiplied to 100Mhz for use as the counters clock.
> >
> > The "MINI" is about 2.5 by 2 inches and has only 5 chips. Two opto
> > couplers an
> > op amp for two analog channels are also on the board. If run on 5 volt a
> > 3.3 V
> > regulator is also on the board. Power required is +5VDC 0.05 A and +- 12
> >
> > (for the RS232 interface)
> >
> > It also has two pins you can individually ground to measure the period of
> > the beat
> > note from either channel.
> >
> > This allows you to adjust the offset frequency quickly and accurately.
> >
> > I installed the "MINI" into a 1U chassis with the power supply and also
> > added "heartbeat" LEDS for each channel to show the presence of the 1PPS
> > inputs.
> >
> > I have plotted several Rubidium and many Quartz using the "MINI"
> > simultaneously with a SR620 counter/timer. The plots are "identical"! So
> > much
> > so that I am going to "retire" and sell my SR620!
> >
> > I understand work is complete on a 4 channel counters and Bluetooth
> > interface,
> > and work is ongoing on a LCD.
> >
> > The "MINI" material cost is less than $25.00 depending on how many
> > boards are ordered!
> >
> > Resoution based on clock frequency and beat frequency:
> >
> > Carrier[MHz] Beat [Hz] Heterodyne TIC [ns] Resolution
> > 10101.00E+06101.00E-14
> > 1011.00E+07101.00E-15
> > 1011.00E+0755.00E-16
> > 10101.00E+0655.00E-15
> > 5105.00E+05102.00E-14
> > 515.00E+06102.00E-15
> > 515.00E+0651.00E-15
> > 5105.00E+0551.00E-14
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> > Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50aa82cb1214a2ca03f8st04duc
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:02:59 -0200
> From: Daniel Mendes <dmendesf at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work
> Message-ID: <50AA9073.8090009 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> Sign me in too...
>
> Daniel
>
> Em 19/11/2012 17:57, Volker Esper escreveu:
> >
> > I'd like to be on the list. Definitely. Where do I have to pay?
> >
> > Volker
> >
> >
> > Am 19.11.2012 20:04, schrieb cdelect at juno.com:
> >>
> >> "MINI-TIC" for DMTD work
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Everyone!
> >>
> >> I've been testing a Miniature 2 channel TIC that Bert Kehren and Juerg
> >> Koegel
> >> and Richard Mc Corkle have designed.
> >>
> >> It has 9 digits/Sec. and with a 1HZ offset in the DMTD unit gives a
> >> resolution of 1X10-15th at 10 MHz, 2X10-15 with a 5 MHz input, when
> >> measuring
> >> Allan deviation. The 200 MHz version doubles the resolution.
> >>
> >> Of course the baseline performance of the DMTD unit and the stability of
> >> the DMTD reference determines the actual accuracy you can obtain.
> >>
> >> (My dual mixer has a baseline of approx. 8X10-14th at 1 second and my
> >> best reference is 4X10-13th at 1 second.)
> >>
> >> The "MINI" takes a 5 or 10 MHz reference that only has to be stable to
> >> parts in 10-8th/sec.
> >> I used a neat 14PIN ovenized DIP clock chip I got on eBay and recently
> >> discussed on the list.
> >>
> >> The reference is multiplied to 100Mhz for use as the counters clock.
> >>
> >> The "MINI" is about 2.5 by 2 inches and has only 5 chips. Two opto
> >> couplers an
> >> op amp for two analog channels are also on the board. If run on 5 volt a
> >> 3.3 V
> >> regulator is also on the board. Power required is +5VDC 0.05 A and +- 12
> >>
> >> (for the RS232 interface)
> >>
> >> It also has two pins you can individually ground to measure the
> >> period of
> >> the beat
> >> note from either channel.
> >>
> >> This allows you to adjust the offset frequency quickly and accurately.
> >>
> >> I installed the "MINI" into a 1U chassis with the power supply and also
> >> added "heartbeat" LEDS for each channel to show the presence of the 1PPS
> >> inputs.
> >>
> >> I have plotted several Rubidium and many Quartz using the "MINI"
> >> simultaneously with a SR620 counter/timer. The plots are "identical"! So
> >> much
> >> so that I am going to "retire" and sell my SR620!
> >>
> >> I understand work is complete on a 4 channel counters and Bluetooth
> >> interface,
> >> and work is ongoing on a LCD.
> >>
> >> The "MINI" material cost is less than $25.00 depending on how many
> >> boards are ordered!
> >>
> >> Resoution based on clock frequency and beat frequency:
> >>
> >> Carrier[MHz] Beat [Hz] Heterodyne TIC [ns] Resolution
> >> 10101.00E+06101.00E-14
> >> 1011.00E+07101.00E-15
> >> 1011.00E+0755.00E-16
> >> 10101.00E+0655.00E-15
> >> 5105.00E+05102.00E-14
> >> 515.00E+06102.00E-15
> >> 515.00E+0651.00E-15
> >> 5105.00E+0551.00E-14
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> >> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50aa82cb1214a2ca03f8st04duc
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:09:59 -0500 (EST)
> From: Erno Peres <ernieperes at aol.com>
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work
> Message-ID: <8CF94A8FC7038EE-12D8-2A347 at webmail-m035.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Hi Gents,
>
> please put me on the list. I should like to have one unit or a KIT.
>
> Rgds Ernie.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Volker Esper <ailer2 at t-online.de>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Sent: Mon, Nov 19, 2012 8:57 pm
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work
>
>
>
> 'd like to be on the list. Definitely. Where do I have to pay?
> Volker
>
> m 19.11.2012 20:04, schrieb cdelect at juno.com:
>
> "MINI-TIC" for DMTD work
>
>
> Hi Everyone!
>
> I've been testing a Miniature 2 channel TIC that Bert Kehren and Juerg
> Koegel
> and Richard Mc Corkle have designed.
>
> It has 9 digits/Sec. and with a 1HZ offset in the DMTD unit gives a
> resolution of 1X10-15th at 10 MHz, 2X10-15 with a 5 MHz input, when
> measuring
> Allan deviation. The 200 MHz version doubles the resolution.
>
> Of course the baseline performance of the DMTD unit and the stability of
> the DMTD reference determines the actual accuracy you can obtain.
>
> (My dual mixer has a baseline of approx. 8X10-14th at 1 second and my
> best reference is 4X10-13th at 1 second.)
>
> The "MINI" takes a 5 or 10 MHz reference that only has to be stable to
> parts in 10-8th/sec.
> I used a neat 14PIN ovenized DIP clock chip I got on eBay and recently
> discussed on the list.
>
> The reference is multiplied to 100Mhz for use as the counters clock.
>
> The "MINI" is about 2.5 by 2 inches and has only 5 chips. Two opto
> couplers an
> op amp for two analog channels are also on the board. If run on 5 volt a
> 3.3 V
> regulator is also on the board. Power required is +5VDC 0.05 A and +- 12
>
> (for the RS232 interface)
>
> It also has two pins you can individually ground to measure the period of
> the beat
> note from either channel.
>
> This allows you to adjust the offset frequency quickly and accurately.
>
> I installed the "MINI" into a 1U chassis with the power supply and also
> added "heartbeat" LEDS for each channel to show the presence of the 1PPS
> inputs.
>
> I have plotted several Rubidium and many Quartz using the "MINI"
> simultaneously with a SR620 counter/timer. The plots are "identical"! So
> much
> so that I am going to "retire" and sell my SR620!
>
> I understand work is complete on a 4 channel counters and Bluetooth
> interface,
> and work is ongoing on a LCD.
>
> The "MINI" material cost is less than $25.00 depending on how many
> boards are ordered!
>
> Resoution based on clock frequency and beat frequency:
>
> Carrier[MHz] Beat [Hz] Heterodyne TIC [ns] Resolution
> 10101.00E+06101.00E-14
> 1011.00E+07101.00E-15
> 1011.00E+0755.00E-16
> 10101.00E+0655.00E-15
> 5105.00E+05102.00E-14
> 515.00E+06102.00E-15
> 515.00E+0651.00E-15
> 5105.00E+0551.00E-14
> ____________________________________________________________
> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/50aa82cb1214a2ca03f8st04duc
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> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 100, Issue 73
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