[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...
Anthony Roby
aroby at antamy.com
Tue Nov 18 20:21:58 UTC 2014
Don - rather than repeat info that has been posted over the course of the past 3-4 weeks, suggest you start here https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2014-October/087274.html
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Murray via time-nuts
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:10 PM
To: time-nuts at febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...
TNX Paul and Anthony...
More questions... ;-)
I see that the REF1 type unit outputs 15MHz...
The REF0 unit has both 15MHz and 10MHz...
So, if I am going to use GPS, I need REF1, but it only does 15MHz out, and I need 10MHz for my stuff... so how do REF1 and REF0 interface??
Or does it work that way??
TNX guys!!
73
Don
W4WJ
In a message dated 11/18/2014 12:28:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, paulswedb at gmail.com writes:
In the picture its the top unit ref1 and its the left hand TNC and it does power the antenna.
If no antenna you need to tie a resistor to ground on the tnc to fake it out.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Anthony Roby <aroby at antamy.com> wrote:
> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set
> of photos I posted. This one
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the
> front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>
> Anthony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
> Murray via time-nuts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>
> Hello all...
>
> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>
> My stupid question (s)...
>
> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
>
> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
>
> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
>
> TIA...
>
>
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> mark at alignedsolutions.com writes:
>
> One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
> similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev
> perspective
> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so
iirc.)
> At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other
Z3805
> from the same source doesn't work as well.
>
> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which
> I basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from
> an
Adev
> perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction
> site
with
> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I
> still have
> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts
<time-nuts at febo.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Correct on all counts Bob.
> >
> > My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel
> ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I
> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
> >
> > Those 10811s just rule.
> >
> > In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related
> small spurs you can see in the plots...
> >
> > Bye,
> > Said
> >
> > Sent From iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
> >> around
> it - right?
> >>
> >> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
> noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the
> only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the
> original
TBolts
> . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise
> floor of limited use in a practical system.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Bob,
> >>>
> >>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
> >>> good
> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
> >>>
> >>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually
> done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less
> noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference
> for this purpose).
> >>>
> >>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be
> >>> good is
> very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already.
> Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy
> to
do.
> It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter
> for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
> >>>
> >>> bye,
> >>> Said
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
> kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs,
> and
> >>> an
> very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher.
> The
> 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I
> ??ve seen on the surplus market.
> >>>
> >>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
> >>> I
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth.
> You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO
> past 100 Hz.
> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
> >>>
> >>> Math:
> >>>
> >>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
> >>>
> >>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
> >>>
> >>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out
> >>> of a
> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
> work fine for him.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
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