[time-nuts] HP3325B as LO for a transceiver or receiver? Phase noise?

[Brian, WA1ZMS]

The two-way radio (LMR/PMR) industry has always had very demanding requirements for RX adjacent channel rejection specifications.  The limiting case for adj-ch rejection often comes down to the PN of the RX LO and the PN of a transmitter in the adj-ch.

Some vendors sold sig gens targeted and built for this market and the required performance.

-Brian, WA1ZMS


> On Jan 1, 2019, at 6:29 PM, Brooke Clarke <brooke at pacific.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark:
> 
> It's not clear to me why pager testing requires such good phase noise.  I wonder if some of the amateur modes also have that need?
> Maybe WSPR?
> https://prc68.com/I/DRM.shtml#WSPR
> 
> -- 
> Have Fun,
> 
> Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
> https://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> axioms:
> 1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works.
> 2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
>> I have done a study of how good it needs to be on my website:
>> 
>> https://sites.google.com/site/markstcxomeasurements/
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 2:34 PM Artek Manuals <Manuals at artekmanuals.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> The question that remains begging here from the original post (maybe off
>>> topic ?) is how low a phase noise does he really NEED in this
>>> application? We here at time-nuts tend to think in the 10e-12 minutia
>>> area, but In this application ( a HF Communications receiver) the 3325B
>>> may be "good enough" that PN wont really be an issue as a practical
>>> matter. Don't see who the original poster is from this snippet but a
>>> possible better place to get a "practical" answer might be over on the
>>> EEVBlog?
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> manuals at artekmanuals.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 1/1/2019 3:38 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:
>>>> Hi Chris:
>>>> 
>>>> The HP 8648 Signal Generator was developed to have low phase noise
>>>> that was needed for testing pagers.
>>>> See second table of SSB Phase Noise at:
>>>> https://prc68.com/I/HP8648.shtml
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Have Fun,
>>>> 
>>>> Brooke Clarke
>>>> https://www.PRC68.com
>>>> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>>>> axioms:
>>>> 1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be
>>>> limited by how well you understand how it works.
>>>> 2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.
>>>> 
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>    01/01/2019 14:22
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could I use my HP3325B locked to a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS disciplined
>>>>> 10MHz oscillator as the master LO of my Kenwood TS-590S transceiver
>>>>> that has a LO at 15.6 MHz, or is the phase noise too great? My VK3HZ
>>>>> gps disciplened LO replacement died recently, I may be able to repair
>>>>> it but as they are noHi Mark:
> 
> It's not clear to me why pager testing requires such good phase noise.  I wonder if some of the amateur modes also have that need?
> Maybe WSPR?
> https://prc68.com/I/DRM.shtml#WSPR
> 
> -- 
> Have Fun,
> 
> Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
> https://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> axioms:
> 1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited by how well you understand how it works.
> 2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
>> I have done a study of how good it needs to be on my website:
>> 
>> https://sites.google.com/site/markstcxomeasurements/
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 2:34 PM Artek Manuals <Manuals at artekmanuals.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> The question that remains begging here from the original post (maybe off
>>> topic ?) is how low a phase noise does he really NEED in this
>>> application? We here at time-nuts tend to think in the 10e-12 minutia
>>> area, but In this application ( a HF Communications receiver) the 3325B
>>> may be "good enough" that PN wont really be an issue as a practical
>>> matter. Don't see who the original poster is from this snippet but a
>>> possible better place to get a "practical" answer might be over on the
>>> EEVBlog?
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> manuals at artekmanuals.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 1/1/2019 3:38 PM, Brooke Clarke wrote:
>>>> Hi Chris:
>>>> 
>>>> The HP 8648 Signal Generator was developed to have low phase noise
>>>> that was needed for testing pagers.
>>>> See second table of SSB Phase Noise at:
>>>> https://prc68.com/I/HP8648.shtml
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Have Fun,
>>>> 
>>>> Brooke Clarke
>>>> https://www.PRC68.com
>>>> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>>>> axioms:
>>>> 1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be
>>>> limited by how well you understand how it works.
>>>> 2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.
>>>> 
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>    01/01/2019 14:22
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could I use my HP3325B locked to a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS disciplined
>>>>> 10MHz oscillator as the master LO of my Kenwood TS-590S transceiver
>>>>> that has a LO at 15.6 MHz, or is the phase noise too great? My VK3HZ
>>>>> gps disciplened LO replacement died recently, I may be able to repair
>>>>> it but as they are no longer available I am looking at alternatives to
>>>>> achieve a very stable frequency. Thanks
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.febo.com/pages/hp3325b/
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.vk3hz.net/XRef/XRef_Home.html
>>>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dave
>>> Manuals at ArtekManuals.com
>>> www.ArtekManuals.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
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>>> 
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