[time-nuts] HP5071A with bad tube.... can I get one used?

William H. Fite omniryx at gmail.com
Sat Oct 26 01:43:18 UTC 2019 

Brooklyn Dodgers here.....

It has been caesium since I was an undergrad, at which time there were
dinosaurs grazing in the quad.




On Friday, October 25, 2019, Richard Solomon <dickw1ksz at gmail.com> wrote:

> When did the spelling of Cesium
> change ? As far back as I can
> remember (High School chemistry,
> easier then, we only had 52
> elements), it was spelled Cesium.
>
> But then, they are still the San
> Diego Chargers to me.
>
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 11:00 PM Tom Knox <actast at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The Latin form “caesium” is the internationally recognized legal
> spelling.
> > The common form “cesium” may still be found in older Symmetricom user’s
> > manuals and publications. The caesium inside any of the devices is
> > contained in a UN certified stainless steel cylinder. This cylinder meets
> > all of the
> > requirements for dangerous goods “containers” or “packages” for both
> > international and U.S. domestic shipments. The instructions in this
> document
> > refer to the labeling required on the outside of the carton or box that
> is
> > used to enclose the caesium device.
> > 1. All U.S. domestic (only) shipments must use and comply with all the
> > requirements of the DOT-SP11401 exemption. The document may be
> > downloaded from the DOT web site at
> > http://hazmat.dot.gov/sp_app/special_permits/docs/11000/E11401.pdf. All
> > Symmetricom customers who are
> > reshipping the Symmetricom device do not need to be listed as a grantee
> > and may use Symmetricom’s exemption (see Par. 8a of DOT-SP11401).
> > The prohibited “modifications or changes” to the “package” referenced in
> > Par. 8a refers to the stainless steel caesium beam tube cylinder, and not
> > any
> > other external packaging (see Par. 7a). Follow normal shipping and
> > handling practice and the following instructions.
> > 2. Attach a copy of DOT-SP11401 to the outer box or container. The
> > document may be legibly reduced, folded, placed in a clear plastic pouch
> and
> > attached outside the package (see Par. 10). The title page should be
> > readable through the pouch. Staple a copy of DOT-SP11401 to the shipping
> > invoice so that the copy attached to the package will not be disturbed.
> Do
> > not include this instruction sheet that you are now reading. Do not use
> > the preprinted, bar-coded dangerous goods label offered by the shipper,
> > which, if scanned, would incorrectly route the package to non-passenger
> > aircraft.
> > 3. Mark the outside of the package "DOT-SP11401 CAESIUM UN 1407". A
> > downloadable template is available from
> > http://www.symmttm.com/5071A/Shipping.
> > 4. Limit to five units the maximum number of caesium devices in each
> > shipment (par. 7b).
> > 5. Comply with the training requirement (Par. 11) for “Hazmat employee”
> > under 49CFR 172.704(a)(2) function-specific training (i). Explanation:
> > This requirement is fully met if the person handling the transportation
> of
> > the caesium device has read, understood and followed these
> > instructions and DOT-SP11401.
> > 6. Additional explanation: The following requirements of the IATA-DG
> > regulations are waived by DOT-SP11401., i.e. not required for U.S.
> > domestic only shipments. Paragraph numbers (Par. #) refer to the
> > paragraphs in DOT-SP11401:
> > LABELING “Dangerous When Wet” and “Danger – Do not load in passenger
> > aircraft” are waived (Par. 4).
> > PLACARDING “Dangerous When Wet” on the carrier’s vehicle is waived (Par.
> > 4).
> > AUTHORIZED PACKAGING or UN (United Nations) certified packaging is waived
> > (Par. 4). The stainless steel caesium beam tube cylinder
> > comprises the authorized or prescribed packaging. No other packaging over
> > the apparatus is required for compliance (Par. 4 and 7a).
> > PASSENGER AIRCRAFT is added as an authorized mode of shipment (Par. 9).
> > Note: FedEx recognizes DOT exemptions. Some carriers,
> > such as UPS and DHL may not recognize DOT exemptions. Check first with
> the
> > carrier when using the exemption.
> > International Shipping
> > 1. All overseas and international shipments must comply with the
> > requirements of the UN/IATA dangerous goods regulations. Visit
> > http://www.iata.org/cargo/dg/index.htm.
> > 2. Mark the outside of the package: “Inner packages comply with
> prescribed
> > specifications CAESIUM UN1407 0.009kg”, the UN package
> > certification number, the “Dangerous when wet” and “Do not load in
> > passenger aircraft” stickers. A downloadable template is available from
> the
> > Symmetricom web sites noted above. Any suitable container that is
> > reasonably strong for normal shipping and handling may be used. No other
> UN
> > certified container is required by the regulation. Visit the Symmetricom
> > web sites for more information.
> > 3. Attach a Dangerous Goods Declaration (authorized, red-stripe bordered
> > document) and fill identification as follows: Proper name CAESIUM;
> > Class 4.3; UN No. UN1407; Packing group I; Quantity and type of packing:
> 1
> > Steel Container, 1A1 0.009 kg Overpack Used; Packing inst. 412.
> > Cross out the words: “Passenger Aircraft” and “Radioactive”. Fill all
> > relevant fields such as Shipper and Consignee appropriately.
> >
> >
> > Tom Knox
> >
> > 303-554-0307
> >
> > actast at hotmail.com
> >
> > "Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of Justice" Both
> > MLK and Albert Einstein
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces at lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob
> kb8tq
> > <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2019 7:06 PM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> > time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP5071A with bad tube.... can I get one used?
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Well, I started shipping them back to the factory in the 1990’s and did
> so
> > a number
> > of times since then. If there was an exemption, the factory was not aware
> > of it. They
> > were the driver for being sure it was shipped as hazmat. Each time
> > (knowing what
> > the issues would be), I offered to drive the unit up there and drop it
> > off. That never
> > seemed to be an acceptable process.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On Oct 24, 2019, at 5:14 PM, Tom Knox <actast at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Actually, unless it has changed in recent years the 5071A has a DOT
> > shipping exemption.
> > > Sadly last I checked several years ago the standard tube was over $28K.
> > Years ago there was a gentlemen in Colo Spring actually repairing tube
> but
> > I believe he passed away a few years ago.
> > > My guess is the main hurdle repairing these is the precision machining
> > and welding required to cut these in half and weld them back together.
> > > Cheers;
> > >
> > > Tom Knox
> > >
> > > 303-554-0307
> > >
> > > actast at hotmail.com
> > >
> > > "Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of Justice"
> Both
> > MLK and Albert Einstein
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces at lists.febo.com> on behalf of Bob
> > kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2019 12:23 PM
> > > To: Taka Kamiya <tkamiya9 at yahoo.com>; Discussion of precise time and
> > frequency measurement <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP5071A with bad tube.... can I get one used?
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > Based on running a high performance tube version of the 5071A for a
> > number of years, the
> > > tubes last about 5 to 7 years when run 24/7/365. Once they die, the
> > practical ($$$$$$$)
> > > alternative is to send the beast back to the factory for a new tube.
> > Indeed given the price
> > > and the complexity of shipping (it’s a hazmat item), this is only
> > practical if you are a company
> > > that needs to use the device.
> > >
> > > At least on the high performance 5071, the “end of life” process is not
> > an immediate death sort of
> > > thing. The stability (ADEV) of the device degrades as the tube wears
> > out. If you have a stability
> > > requirement (not just function) the wear out point will be a bit
> earlier
> > than the numbers above.
> > > Just how much earlier depends a bit on how picky you are. ( = if you
> > high performance tube is
> > > worse than a standard tube, how happy are you?) You also would need the
> > gear to test the ADEV.
> > >
> > > Some of what’s in the 5071A is running based on firmware and settings
> > shot in here and there
> > > on the device. Updating / adjusting / tweaking those settings has not
> > been documented out
> > > here “in the wild” AFIK. The factory (obviously) does understand how to
> > tweak this or that.
> > > The degree to which tweaks might be needed with this or that unusual
> > tube is very much
> > > open to debate.
> > >
> > > The whole “can’t get a tube” issue is hardly unique to the 5071A. I
> have
> > a pair of Cs standards
> > > in the basement. Both have tube issues. One may be repairable if I ever
> > get around to playing
> > > with the fix. Once “fixed” will it run for another few months or a few
> > more years? There is no way
> > > to know without trying it.
> > >
> > > Will this or that tube last a month, a year or two or a decade or thee?
> > I know of no external test that will
> > > guarantee a decade of capacity. There are indeed tests that will
> suggest
> > that you are limping along.
> > > Most (but not all) basement Cs standards are in the “limping along”
> > category. As with the 5071,
> > > just what constitutes limping along, depends a bit on how close to (or
> > how much better than) the
> > > factory spec you need to be.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >> On Oct 23, 2019, at 11:42 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
> > time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I have an HP5071A with a high performance option that does not work.
> > All of my tests indicate the faulty component is a tube itself.  Buying a
> > new tube is way out of my budget.  I am now torn between parting it out
> and
> > see what I can use and keeping it intact with hope something might pop
> up.
> > >>
> > >> Question for the group....  Obtaining a used tube for this, I don't
> > care if its high performance or not, as long as it works with the
> chassis,
> > is really not a possibility, correct?  I have never seen one on eBay.
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------
> > >> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> > >> KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
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Homo sum humani a me nihil alienum puto.

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