[time-nuts] WWVB PM Time Questions

Thu Jul 23 20:00:06 UTC 2020

Understood and did plenty of them. That means I am unclear as to whats
required.
But will for the moment let this drop. Its not my thread.
Regards
Paul.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 3:56 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Keep in mind that the EFC range is part of the control loop parameters.
> When you change EFC range, you need to recalculate the control loop.
> That likely means putting in different components in the control loop.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Jul 23, 2020, at 10:22 AM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bob
> > I attempted to use a OCXO a Piezo and could never get it to hold lock.
> > Did invert the control and such. Anyhow, just wondering if I need a
> simpler
> > sloppy VCTXO.
> > No time to tinker. But I believe I have some really nice little 10 MHz
> > vectron VCTCXOs.
> > If that worked then what I am dealing with is an efc range control issue.
> > Perhaps the swing is to large...
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:58 AM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> 10 MHz *is* a frequency at which you can find a pretty good $3 to $6
> OCXO.
> >> I find that a bit amazing, but (at least right now) that’s how it seems
> to
> >> work.
> >> (and yes, they do have EFC).
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 10:09 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Looked at the KD2BD schematic and it is a 10 MHz VCTCXO. That seems
> >>> reasonable perhaps to find.
> >>> Regards
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:44 PM paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I was actually thinking about this quite a bit and perhaps I went the
> >>>> wrong way.
> >>>> That is a cheap vcxo class device. His unit was not an oven as I
> recall.
> >>>> Just maybe a bit too good was actually bad.
> >>>> Hard to say and no time to play right now.
> >>>> Regards
> >>>> Paul
> >>>> WB8TSL
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:06 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jul 22, 2020, at 3:51 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ray watch out for my comment on the KD2BD solution. That oscillator
> >>>>> isn't
> >>>>>> available and I have not been able to map something else into it.
> >> Tried
> >>>>>> several good grade Oven oscillators. Just be aware of that issue.
> >>>>>> Would need to do more tinkering and simply don't have that time
> right
> >>>>> now.
> >>>>>> Also it would be great if the oscillator was something that could be
> >>>>>> obtained at a reasonable cost. I do not believe at all it has to be
> a
> >>>>>> OCXO as the older true time and spectracoms were not and they locked
> >>>>> solid.
> >>>>>> So its a case of getting the control voltages right.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can buy a surprisingly good little OCXO (for the price) on eBay
> >> these
> >>>>> days in the  $3 to $6 range. Find one at 12.6 MHz and it will divide
> >>>>> nicely to
> >>>>> 60 KHz. 19.2 MHz looks like a better candidate … Either way I have
> not
> >>>>> (yet)
> >>>>> seen a 60 KHz multiple show up in the cheap category.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bob
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>> Paul.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:29 PM <rcbuck at atcelectronics.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks to all for the suggestions. I dug a ferrite rod AM radio
> >> antenna
> >>>>>>> out of the box this morning. I have a box of 10 left over from the
> >> late
> >>>>>>> 80s. It measures 0.950 mH so I will add some turns to get it to 1.5
> >> mH
> >>>>>>> which will be easier to resonate at 60 kHz. Then I need to build up
> >> the
> >>>>>>> RF amp and run the output through a 60 kHz crystal filter. I have
> to
> >>>>>>> order the crystals since I don't have any on hand. It will take a
> >>>>> couple
> >>>>>>> of weeks to get the front end working.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am in Phoenix so the WWVB signal is of decent quality here even
> >>>>> during
> >>>>>>> the daytime. My 25 year old cheap Casio watch will sync up within
> 2-3
> >>>>>>> minutes any time of day or night. It normally syncs at 2 am but I
> >> have
> >>>>>>> done tests to confirm daytime sync works reliably.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mark, I know virtually nothing about SDR other than it works. I
> >> bought
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>>> RTL-SDR.Com module a couple of years ago and played with it a
> little
> >>>>>>> bit. But it quit working and I haven't thought about SDR since
> then.
> >> My
> >>>>>>> Icom 7300 is a SDR and it works very well. I think to attempt to
> >> design
> >>>>>>> a SDR would be well over my head. I anticipate this project taking
> >> 2-3
> >>>>>>> months. If I get it working I will be glad to share everything with
> >> the
> >>>>>>> group.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lester and Paul, I will test with the Costas loop as it may be the
> >>>>>>> easiest way to go. To test the Costas loop I am basically going to
> >>>>>>> duplicate the KD2BD design. I was reluctant about it in the
> beginning
> >>>>>>> but more reading seems to indicate it will be fine. My AWG allows
> me
> >> to
> >>>>>>> set the phase from 0 to 360 degrees independently on each channel
> so
> >> I
> >>>>>>> can use that for initial testing. That testing can be done prior to
> >>>>>>> getting the front end working.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Richard, is your software posted somewhere? I assume it allows you
> to
> >>>>>>> specify the time and date you want it to send. That would come in
> >> handy
> >>>>>>> for writing the code to extract the timer/date data. I have seen
> >>>>>>> examples of the Arduino transmitting the old AM signal but don't
> >> recall
> >>>>>>> seeing one that sends the BPSK stream.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have a GPS time receiver with a 1.2 inch LED display that I
> built a
> >>>>>>> couple of years ago. I have it setup so the UART outputs the gprmc
> >> NEMA
> >>>>>>> string in case I want to look at it. I have a couple of spare GPS
> >>>>>>> modules lying around and several Arduino Uno modules. I have no
> >> problem
> >>>>>>> picking up the GPS satellites using only the patch antenna that is
> >>>>> built
> >>>>>>> into the modules.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ray,
> >>>>>>> AB7HE
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
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