[time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

Thu Nov 5 00:22:07 UTC 2020

I did not know either but didn't see anything in the pgm.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 6:08 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
john at westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Yes I did; I have the touchscreen controls wired up because I didn't know
> if they were being used or not for sure.
>
> I'll disconnect those now.
>
> Thanks.
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 10:34 paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Did you hook the touch screen up?
> > I didn't as there was no reason to.
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:19 PM paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nope never seen it. Its as if the display is writing vertically and
> > > horizontally.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 11:55 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > > john at westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Paul/Chris,
> > >>
> > >> Also - in addition to the white screen, I get this sometimes after
> > running
> > >> for a while - have you guys seen this?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2308903/98118247-cd4c7b00-1e5f-11eb-8510-aa1ed0beba52.jpg
> > >>
> > >> 73's,
> > >> John
> > >> AJ6BC
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:44 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > >> john at westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Paul,
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks for the info.  I took some good measurements on the signal
> > coming
> > >> > in on one of the small ferrite antennas when the signal was fairly
> OK
> > -
> > >> I
> > >> > measured
> > >> > 4-9 uV.  I haven't done this same measurement yet on the antenna I'm
> > >> > testing on - I didn't think I could be over driving the mic input
> but
> > >> > that's a possibility.  Also, I haven't done a great job in
> assembling
> > >> this
> > >> > project - I need to neaten things up and maybe encase in a housing
> > >> > that will reject RFI, etc.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks for mentioning this.  I have ordered one of those nice
> antennas
> > >> > from Stormwise but I'm still waiting to receive it.
> > >> >
> > >> > 73's,
> > >> > John
> > >> > AJ6BC
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 12:13 PM paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> By the way thats leads. A typo.
> > >> >> It just hit me I had to cut the signal down so that the signal
> graph
> > >> was
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> the middle.
> > >> >> On the large antenna thats a 330K resistor to a 100K pot.
> > >> >> For the wwvb simulator its simply the 100K pot turned up about
> 2/3rds
> > >> of
> > >> >> the way. The simulator is something like 60 uv out.
> > >> >> Maybe you have a overdrive issue.
> > >> >> Regards
> > >> >> Paul.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 9:49 AM paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > John
> > >> >> > Yes I have used Chris's code to decode the wwvb AM timecode. I am
> > in
> > >> >> > Boston so just about as far away as you can get. Though maybe
> > >> Florida is
> > >> >> > further. But Boston is in more of a null from wwvb.
> > >> >> > Granted the antenna is a tuned 10' X 10' 800 ft of wire loop and
> > >> preamp
> > >> >> > mentioned numerous times on time-nuts. It reliably during the day
> > >> >> delivers
> > >> >> > 100 uv at the end of the coax.
> > >> >> > I found the teensy wwvb sdr really worked best during the day.
> With
> > >> >> > respect to power for the antenna its just a power inserter I
> built,
> > >> 8 Mh
> > >> >> > choke, 100 ohm resistor, .47 uf coupling cap to the teensy. No
> > magic
> > >> at
> > >> >> all.
> > >> >> > One very serious issue with the teensy is that the audio module
> > must
> > >> be
> > >> >> > directly stacked on to the cpu. I originally used 3" leeds those
> > >> little
> > >> >> > jumpers. It makes a mess of the clock signals.
> > >> >> > Regards
> > >> >> > Paul.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 10:55 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > >> >> > john at westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> Paul,
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Have you successfully decoded WWVB with Chris's code?
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> I haven't gotten that to work.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> I'm using the same antenna set up I've used that works with the
> > >> >> multipsk
> > >> >> >> Clock program to decode WWVB that will decode fairly reliably as
> > >> long
> > >> >> as
> > >> >> >> atmospheric conditions are favorable.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Note, if using the Arduino IDE and you're connected to a PC; it
> > will
> > >> >> >> sometimes set the clock on the TFT to the PC's clock; I'm
> > mentioning
> > >> >> that
> > >> >> >> since some that try this could think their set up is synced to
> > WWVB
> > >> >> when
> > >> >> >> it
> > >> >> >> actually grabbed time from the PC.  Maybe the loader from Teensy
> > >> does
> > >> >> >> that;
> > >> >> >> I haven't looked close enough yet to know for sure what's
> setting
> > >> that.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Glad you're making progress with your approach.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> 73's,
> > >> >> >> John
> > >> >> >> AJ6BC
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 18:20 paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> > John thats exactly what Chris did. Its the teensywwvb.ino. It
> > >> decodes
> > >> >> >> the
> > >> >> >> > AM timecode just as the DCF code does. In fact Chris's code is
> > >> >> derived
> > >> >> >> from
> > >> >> >> > the DCF code with the changes you are asking about and it
> works.
> > >> >> >> Download
> > >> >> >> > his solution and read the comments throughout. The original
> DCF
> > >> >> comments
> > >> >> >> > are in it also.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Its the starting point for the tinkering I am doing towards a
> > BPSK
> > >> >> SDR.
> > >> >> >> > Thats a big leap for me.
> > >> >> >> > What the code gives you is the frontend gain, followed by a
> > >> bandpass
> > >> >> >> > filter. Multiplier that mixes the LO and incoming signal to a
> > >> lowpass
> > >> >> >> > filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy
> > extension
> > >> >> just
> > >> >> >> use
> > >> >> >> > notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Regards
> > >> >> >> > Paul
> > >> >> >> > WB8TSL
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > >> >> >> > john at westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > I have a question -
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the
> > >> example
> > >> >> >> for
> > >> >> >> > > DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my
> > setup
> > >> at
> > >> >> >> least
> > >> >> >> > I
> > >> >> >> > > haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna -
> not
> > >> sure
> > >> >> >> just
> > >> >> >> > > yet.
> > >> >> >> > > Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that
> > for
> > >> a
> > >> >> >> while -
> > >> >> >> > > meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know
> > >> what's
> > >> >> >> doing
> > >> >> >> > > that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits
> OK
> > -
> > >> >> with
> > >> >> >> the
> > >> >> >> > > code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down
> that
> > >> >> path.
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure
> it's
> > >> >> worth
> > >> >> >> > > anything other than looking at some of the data that's being
> > >> >> dumped.
> > >> >> >> > > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no
> AM
> > at
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> >> > minute
> > >> >> >> > > marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
> > >> >> >> > > 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive
> > >> markers
> > >> >> mark
> > >> >> >> > the
> > >> >> >> > > end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal
> > >> >> level/timing
> > >> >> >> > and
> > >> >> >> > > the dimensions of the TFT display for
> > >> >> >> > > displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears
> to
> > me
> > >> >> right
> > >> >> >> > now
> > >> >> >> > > unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
> > >> >> >> > > a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for
> > >> WWVB -
> > >> >> of
> > >> >> >> > > course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like
> KE9NS
> > >> has
> > >> >> >> done in
> > >> >> >> > > his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
> > >> >> >> > > this setup.
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > 73's,
> > >> >> >> > > John
> > >> >> >> > > AJ6BC
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher <
> mfeher at eozinc.com
> > >
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > > Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know
> > nothing
> > >> >> about
> > >> >> >> > > these
> > >> >> >> > > > new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS
> > >> >> >> > > > 89 Arnold Blvd.
> > >> >> >> > > > Howell NJ 07731
> > >> >> >> > > > 848-245-9115
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> > > > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces at lists.febo.com> On
> > Behalf
> > >> Of
> > >> >> >> paul
> > >> >> >> > > swed
> > >> >> >> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
> > >> >> >> > > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> > >> >> >> > > > time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> > >> >> >> > > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early
> experiments
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It can
> > >> easily
> > >> >> be
> > >> >> >> > > > shifted to other frequencies. Using the work Frank dcf77
> and
> > >> then
> > >> >> >> Chris
> > >> >> >> > > > wwvb did with the PJRC audio design tool gives quite a bit
> > of
> > >> >> >> insight
> > >> >> >> > to
> > >> >> >> > > > the work that was done.
> > >> >> >> > > > The system assumes a sample rate of 192Khz. That limits
> the
> > >> >> receive
> > >> >> >> > range
> > >> >> >> > > > to about 98KHz.
> > >> >> >> > > > I have not been able to confirm the rate I am using is
> > 192Khz
> > >> and
> > >> >> >> when
> > >> >> >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > > set command is used its not recognized. So somethings up.
> > >> >> >> > > > The design Chris has essentially is a microphone input
> with
> > >> some
> > >> >> 38
> > >> >> >> db
> > >> >> >> > of
> > >> >> >> > > > gain feeding a bandpass filter around 60 KHz to a
> multiplier
> > >> (RF
> > >> >> >> mixer)
> > >> >> >> > > > then a low pass filter. Chris and Franks design is much
> more
> > >> than
> > >> >> >> these
> > >> >> >> > > few
> > >> >> >> > > > words with spectrum display, signal level, and AGC.
> > >> >> >> > > > So without any effort the frontend solution is sitting in
> > the
> > >> >> teensy
> > >> >> >> > that
> > >> >> >> > > > cuts out a bunch of typical wiring. Granted its not as
> tight
> > >> as
> > >> >> >> > discrete
> > >> >> >> > > > components can be. But its a chunk of software code. No
> digi
> > >> key
> > >> >> >> orders
> > >> >> >> > > for
> > >> >> >> > > > L & Cs... :-) The output of the chain is 600 Hz audio that
> > >> does
> > >> >> >> contain
> > >> >> >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > > phase changes.
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > But the trick is creating the true I & Q channels. Not an
> > >> issue
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >> add
> > >> >> >> > a
> > >> >> >> > > > second multiplier and chain did that last night. But at
> > >> >> someplace a
> > >> >> >> 90
> > >> >> >> > > > degree phase change or delay needs to occur.
> > >> >> >> > > > Or as suggested a hilbert transform.
> > >> >> >> > > > Regards
> > >> >> >> > > > Paul
> > >> >> >> > > > WB8TSL
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> > >> >> >> > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> > >> >> >> > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > >> >> >> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> >> >> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
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> > >> >> >> > >
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > >> >> >> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
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> > >> >> >> >
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> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________
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