[time-nuts] History of HP Mercury Clocks Digest, Vol 199, Issue 6
Demetrios Matsakis
dnmyiasou at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 7 18:01:24 UTC 2021
Richard’s description is close. They were shipped to the USNO in the mid-80s, and they didn’t work well. I was the only physicist there at the time, and was asked to take time off from VLBI and Earth rotation to work on it. That’s how I entered the timekeeping world.
My contribution was to discover that frequencies would go bananas in coincidence with vacuum and heater events. That was published as "Eight Years of Experience with Mercury Stored-Ion Devices", D.N. Matsakis, A. Kubik, J. De Young, R.P. Giffard, and L. Cutler, Proceedings of IEEE Frequency Control Symposium, 86 (1995). I may have a copy of it somewhere.
The shipping disaster was before my time, but I certainly heard about it. It had come upside down. I was told the insurance covered it, but I don’t know if some special branch of HP served as the self-insurer. I remember Len Cutler telling me that they had to pay HP for any HP equipment involved, even though everybody worked for HP.
Later, at a pulsar meeting, I heard a talk by Lute Maleki about the JPL device, and we ordered one of those from them. Thereafter JPL made a steady stream of improvements, including hiring one of my employees - Eric Burt. And the rest is history. Or will be once the Deep Space Atomic Clock data are published.
>
> On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:55:07 -0700
> "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, about 20 years ago, Len Cutler and Robin Giffard of 5071A fame
>> built several Hg ion clocks to be shipped to some govt customer I
>> don't remember. One of the clocks was dropped by the shipping company
>> UPS or FedEX) and destroyed. Only then did Len learn that HP was
>> self insured, probably as part of a package deal to get a low
>> corporate shipping rate. HP products were packed extremely well, so
>> the only real risk was the unit getting stolen. I vaguely remember
>> Len saying they were out $10K, which was probably just the cost of
>> parts. Nevertheless, it didn't seem like building an Hg clock was
>> all that big of a project. Way simpler than the 5071A.
>> Now a days, the electronics would be considerably easier and cheaper.
>> The mechanical parts would all be CNC'ed by an online machine shop.
>
> Magnus just send me out to chase an (unrelated) paper and I stumbled
> over [1] which describes the Hg standard that Cutler & Co built.
> Remembering this discussion I thought it might be interesting to
> some.
>
>
> Attila Kinali
> "Trapped Mercury 199 Ion Frequency Standard", Cutler,
> Giffard, McGuire, PTTI, 1981
> http://time.kinali.ch/ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>
> --
> The driving force behind research is the question: "Why?"
> There are things we don't understand and things we always
> wonder about. And that's why we do research.
> -- Kobayashi Makoto
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 14:29:35 -0500
> From: Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Used Hydrogen Maser
> Message-ID: <C43DEF80-9E83-4501-8895-815836C3FF24 at n1k.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Cool !!!
>
>> On Feb 6, 2021, at 1:05 PM, Attila Kinali <attila at kinali.ch> wrote:
>>
>> Moin,
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:55:07 -0700
>> "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, about 20 years ago, Len Cutler and Robin Giffard of 5071A fame
>>> built several Hg ion clocks to be shipped to some govt customer I
>>> don't remember. One of the clocks was dropped by the shipping company
>>> UPS or FedEX) and destroyed. Only then did Len learn that HP was
>>> self insured, probably as part of a package deal to get a low
>>> corporate shipping rate. HP products were packed extremely well, so
>>> the only real risk was the unit getting stolen. I vaguely remember
>>> Len saying they were out $10K, which was probably just the cost of
>>> parts. Nevertheless, it didn't seem like building an Hg clock was
>>> all that big of a project. Way simpler than the 5071A.
>>> Now a days, the electronics would be considerably easier and cheaper.
>>> The mechanical parts would all be CNC'ed by an online machine shop.
>>
>> Magnus just send me out to chase an (unrelated) paper and I stumbled
>> over [1] which describes the Hg standard that Cutler & Co built.
>> Remembering this discussion I thought it might be interesting to
>> some.
>>
>>
>> Attila Kinali
>> "Trapped Mercury 199 Ion Frequency Standard", Cutler,
>> Giffard, McGuire, PTTI, 1981
>> http://time.kinali.ch/ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>>
>> --
>> The driving force behind research is the question: "Why?"
>> There are things we don't understand and things we always
>> wonder about. And that's why we do research.
>> -- Kobayashi Makoto
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 12:23:38 -0800
> From: Tom Van Baak <tvb at LeapSecond.com>
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Used Hydrogen Maser
> Message-ID: <2a0a5548-5ee7-a7e2-76fc-7b4024c500f2 at LeapSecond.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>> ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>
> Note the dialog on the last page. Dave Wineland went on to win the 2012
> Nobel prize in Physics:
>
> https://www.nist.gov/nist-and-nobel/dave-wineland/person-behind-nobel-prize-dave-wineland
>
> The first photo is fun, "Before he was a quantum mechanic...". Then
> there's this recent press release:
>
> https://around.uoregon.edu/wineland
>
> The lovely photo of NBS-6 (NIST cesium clock) comes from:
>
> https://www.nist.gov/image/img044jpg
>
> And for a nice trip through the past, including NBS-1 and NIST-7 see:
>
> https://www.nist.gov/si-redefinition/second/second-past
>
> /tvb
>
>
> On 2/6/2021 10:05 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>> Moin,
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:55:07 -0700
>> "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, about 20 years ago, Len Cutler and Robin Giffard of 5071A fame
>>> built several Hg ion clocks to be shipped to some govt customer I
>>> don't remember. One of the clocks was dropped by the shipping company
>>> UPS or FedEX) and destroyed. Only then did Len learn that HP was
>>> self insured, probably as part of a package deal to get a low
>>> corporate shipping rate. HP products were packed extremely well, so
>>> the only real risk was the unit getting stolen. I vaguely remember
>>> Len saying they were out $10K, which was probably just the cost of
>>> parts. Nevertheless, it didn't seem like building an Hg clock was
>>> all that big of a project. Way simpler than the 5071A.
>>> Now a days, the electronics would be considerably easier and cheaper.
>>> The mechanical parts would all be CNC'ed by an online machine shop.
>> Magnus just send me out to chase an (unrelated) paper and I stumbled
>> over [1] which describes the Hg standard that Cutler & Co built.
>> Remembering this discussion I thought it might be interesting to
>> some.
>>
>>
>> Attila Kinali
>> "Trapped Mercury 199 Ion Frequency Standard", Cutler,
>> Giffard, McGuire, PTTI, 1981
>> http://time.kinali.ch/ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 15:44:10 -0700
> From: Bill Notfaded <notfaded1 at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Used Hydrogen Maser
> Message-ID:
> <CADToqn2fk64qa0=xnf1+7Xib+zcPGuP7WyeWkeSDjvUOD9ryVg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Let me know when I can buy one please! I'm not kidding. ;^}
>
> Bill in Arizona
>
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2021, 1:25 PM Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com> wrote:
>
>>> ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>>
>> Note the dialog on the last page. Dave Wineland went on to win the 2012
>> Nobel prize in Physics:
>>
>>
>> https://www.nist.gov/nist-and-nobel/dave-wineland/person-behind-nobel-prize-dave-wineland
>>
>> The first photo is fun, "Before he was a quantum mechanic...". Then
>> there's this recent press release:
>>
>> https://around.uoregon.edu/wineland
>>
>> The lovely photo of NBS-6 (NIST cesium clock) comes from:
>>
>> https://www.nist.gov/image/img044jpg
>>
>> And for a nice trip through the past, including NBS-1 and NIST-7 see:
>>
>> https://www.nist.gov/si-redefinition/second/second-past
>>
>> /tvb
>>
>>
>> On 2/6/2021 10:05 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>>> Moin,
>>>
>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:55:07 -0700
>>> "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> FWIW, about 20 years ago, Len Cutler and Robin Giffard of 5071A fame
>>>> built several Hg ion clocks to be shipped to some govt customer I
>>>> don't remember. One of the clocks was dropped by the shipping company
>>>> UPS or FedEX) and destroyed. Only then did Len learn that HP was
>>>> self insured, probably as part of a package deal to get a low
>>>> corporate shipping rate. HP products were packed extremely well, so
>>>> the only real risk was the unit getting stolen. I vaguely remember
>>>> Len saying they were out $10K, which was probably just the cost of
>>>> parts. Nevertheless, it didn't seem like building an Hg clock was
>>>> all that big of a project. Way simpler than the 5071A.
>>>> Now a days, the electronics would be considerably easier and cheaper.
>>>> The mechanical parts would all be CNC'ed by an online machine shop.
>>> Magnus just send me out to chase an (unrelated) paper and I stumbled
>>> over [1] which describes the Hg standard that Cutler & Co built.
>>> Remembering this discussion I thought it might be interesting to
>>> some.
>>>
>>>
>>> Attila Kinali
>>> "Trapped Mercury 199 Ion Frequency Standard", Cutler,
>>> Giffard, McGuire, PTTI, 1981
>>> http://time.kinali.ch/ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 20:29:50 -0500
> From: Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Used Hydrogen Maser
> Message-ID: <8D18F76D-79C7-4F68-9A4D-025D8D7DDBF1 at n1k.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi
>
>
>
>> On Feb 6, 2021, at 5:44 PM, Bill Notfaded <notfaded1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Let me know when I can buy one please! I'm not kidding. ;^}
>>
>
> This thread has drifted from Hydrogen Masers, to Mercury Ion clocks,
> to long beam Cs standards, and passes things like 5071?s while doing so.
>
> Which of those items are you after?
>
> In some cases the answer is maybe $100K, in others maybe 5X that. For
> other items on that list you would be funding a development project ?..
>
> Bob
>
>
>> Bill in Arizona
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 6, 2021, 1:25 PM Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>>>
>>> Note the dialog on the last page. Dave Wineland went on to win the 2012
>>> Nobel prize in Physics:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.nist.gov/nist-and-nobel/dave-wineland/person-behind-nobel-prize-dave-wineland
>>>
>>> The first photo is fun, "Before he was a quantum mechanic...". Then
>>> there's this recent press release:
>>>
>>> https://around.uoregon.edu/wineland
>>>
>>> The lovely photo of NBS-6 (NIST cesium clock) comes from:
>>>
>>> https://www.nist.gov/image/img044jpg
>>>
>>> And for a nice trip through the past, including NBS-1 and NIST-7 see:
>>>
>>> https://www.nist.gov/si-redefinition/second/second-past
>>>
>>> /tvb
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/6/2021 10:05 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>>>> Moin,
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:55:07 -0700
>>>> "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, about 20 years ago, Len Cutler and Robin Giffard of 5071A fame
>>>>> built several Hg ion clocks to be shipped to some govt customer I
>>>>> don't remember. One of the clocks was dropped by the shipping company
>>>>> UPS or FedEX) and destroyed. Only then did Len learn that HP was
>>>>> self insured, probably as part of a package deal to get a low
>>>>> corporate shipping rate. HP products were packed extremely well, so
>>>>> the only real risk was the unit getting stolen. I vaguely remember
>>>>> Len saying they were out $10K, which was probably just the cost of
>>>>> parts. Nevertheless, it didn't seem like building an Hg clock was
>>>>> all that big of a project. Way simpler than the 5071A.
>>>>> Now a days, the electronics would be considerably easier and cheaper.
>>>>> The mechanical parts would all be CNC'ed by an online machine shop.
>>>> Magnus just send me out to chase an (unrelated) paper and I stumbled
>>>> over [1] which describes the Hg standard that Cutler & Co built.
>>>> Remembering this discussion I thought it might be interesting to
>>>> some.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Attila Kinali
>>>> "Trapped Mercury 199 Ion Frequency Standard", Cutler,
>>>> Giffard, McGuire, PTTI, 1981
>>>> http://time.kinali.ch/ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 19:16:09 -0700
> From: Wes <wes at triconet.org>
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Used Hydrogen Maser
> Message-ID: <a5c69007-5343-1436-a1f3-058722b7579f at triconet.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Although Mr. Wineland's IQ must be at least 50 points higher than mine, we do
> have something in common. I too owned a '36 Ford in my youth, about the same
> time as he did, although mine was a Cabriolet not a coupe, and I fitted it with
> an OHV Studebaker V8, a smaller displacement clone of a Cadillac V8.
>
> Wes? N7WS
>
> On 2/6/2021 1:23 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
>>> ptti/1981papers/Vol%2013_30.pdf
>>
>> Note the dialog on the last page. Dave Wineland went on to win the 2012 Nobel
>> prize in Physics:
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 18:47:52 -0800
> From: Hal Murray <hmurray at megapathdsl.net>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Cc: hmurray at megapathdsl.net
> Subject: [time-nuts] Anybody plotted the ADEV of a V8 idle speed?
> Message-ID:
> <20210207024752.A11AC406061 at ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> wes at triconet.org said:
>> Although Mr. Wineland's IQ must be at least 50 points higher than mine, we do
>> have something in common. I too owned a '36 Ford in my youth, about the same
>> time as he did, although mine was a Cabriolet not a coupe, and I fitted it
>> with an OHV Studebaker V8, a smaller displacement clone of a Cadillac V8.
>
> Speaking of V8s...
>
> Just a simple graph of idle speed vs time for the first few minutes after a
> cold start might be a fun high school science project.
>
> Is the idle speed of a modern warm engine locked to the CPU's crystal or is
> there a feedback loop setting some pollution or mileage parameter?
>
> In the old days (pre computer), there was some thermal input to the idle
> speed. I assume it was a bimetalic element.
>
> --
> These are my opinions. I hate spam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 22:34:46 -0500
> From: Martin VE3OAT <ve3oat at storm.ca>
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Some old Time & Frequency stuff for sale, eastern
> Ontario, Canada
> Message-ID: <add901fb-e887-80d4-a51b-52865a7dd8fd at storm.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>
> Trying to down-size a bit and these must go, as I will probably never
> use them again. All units are rack-mountable. Heavy stuff, only
> local pick-up (in Greely, just south of Ottawa) or can meet within an
> hour's drive of Ottawa. Value $160, take it all home for $100!
>
> 1. and 2. Two General Radio 1123-A digital synchronometers (clocks).
> Displays time HH:MM:SS. Requires input of 1 MHz or 100 kHz, sine or
> square wave. Can be synced by local clock pulse, with provision for
> propagation delay. One (black panel) was working fine when taken out
> of service. The other one (white panel) worked but did not reset at
> 23:59 (the old missing reset pulse problem). I never found time to
> fix it while the first one was working fine. These units are typical
> GR construction and work reliably, except that the display modules
> are a bit of a pain to keep working due to recurring contact problems
> (annual maintenance recommended). With photocopy of the manual and
> fold-out schematics in a binder. And a box of spare bulbs for the
> display modules. Needs GR-type power cord. $40 for the pair.
>
> 3. Fluke 207-13 VLF Receiver/Phase Comparator.
> * See Note. Phase comparison receiver, tunes 8.0-31.9 and 60.0
> kHz. Local standard comparison input 100 kHz or 1 MHz. Modified
> antenna input circuit. Was working fine when taken out of service,
> and checked OK in recent "lash-up" test. With bound photocopy of
> manual with fold-out circuit diagrams, and a box of untested spare
> circuit cards from a cannibalized Fluke 207. $30.
>
> 4. Spectracom 8164 NBS Receiver/Disciplined Oscillator.
> * See Note. A 60 kHz phase comparison receiver. Local standard
> input 0.1, 1.0, 5.0, or 10.0 MHz. Modified to add 10 MHz, 100 kHz
> and 1 Hz TTL outputs, and to remove 12VDC from 10 MHz sine wave
> outputs (distribution amplifier) to remote sites. Was working fine
> when taken out of service when WWVB changed to phase modulation.
> With original manual and diagrams. $30.
>
> 5. Kinemetrics/TrueTime 60-TF LF Receiver/Frequency Comparator.
> * See Note. Phase comparison receiver for 60 kHz, compact
> construction (1.75-inch rack panel). Local standard comparison input
> 1 MHz but might work with others. Was working fine when taken out
> of service, and checked OK in recent "lash-up" test. Digital phase
> display and strip chart recorder on front, analog voltage output on
> rear. Unfortunately, no manual or other documentation. $20.
>
> 6. Beckman Instruments 905 WWV Receiver.
> HF AM receiver, all vacuum tubes, selectable channels 2.5, 5, 10, 15,
> 20, or 25 MHz, with fine tuning, audio filters, internal speaker,
> S-meter, modified for AGC voltage output on the rear (BNC). With
> photocopy of the manual and schematic. Working fine but power cord
> should be replaced. $20.
>
> 7. Lavoie LA-800D WWV Frequency Comparator.
> Compares local standard frequency (50 kHz to 10 MHz) with WWV on 5 or
> 15 MHz. Vacuum tubes. Scope trace is good but screen has small burn
> mark (does not affect operation). Tested with 1 and 10 MHz local
> standards and seems to be working fine, except there is no derived 400
> kHz standard output (not needed). Probably needs alignment. When fed
> with a good local standard, it is fun to watch the phase changes on
> WWV signal caused by propagation. Big and heavy. With 19" cabinet
> and photocopy of operation and service manual. $20.
>
> * NOTE -- The VLF receivers do not work by themselves with the new
> WWVB signal format. You must first de-phase-modulate the raw 60 kHz
> WWVB signal to remove the PSK time code modulation before passing the
> signal to the receiver's antenna input. See the article at :
> http://maxmcarter.com/rubidium/2012_mod/index.html for one solution.
>
>
> Take all seven units for $100 cash.
>
> 73,
> ... Martin Potter VE3OAT
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 23:42:47 -0500
> From: "Tom Holmes" <tholmes at woh.rr.com>
> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anybody plotted the ADEV of a V8 idle speed?
> Message-ID: <133c01d6fd0b$af203740$0d60a5c0$@woh.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Idle speed is simply controlled to an rpm value,
> which thus makes it tied, loosely, to the CPU
> clock. The phase noise is quite awful, by anyone's
> standards, mainly because the parameters measured
> to control fuel and spark timing, are noisy.
>
> Tom Holmes, N8ZM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces at lists.febo.com>
> On Behalf Of Hal Murray
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2021 9:48 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency
> measurement <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Cc: hmurray at megapathdsl.net
> Subject: [time-nuts] Anybody plotted the ADEV of a
> V8 idle speed?
>
>
> wes at triconet.org said:
>> Although Mr. Wineland's IQ must be at least 50
> points higher than mine, we do
>> have something in common. I too owned a '36
> Ford in my youth, about the same
>> time as he did, although mine was a Cabriolet
> not a coupe, and I fitted it
>> with an OHV Studebaker V8, a smaller
> displacement clone of a Cadillac V8.
>
> Speaking of V8s...
>
> Just a simple graph of idle speed vs time for the
> first few minutes after a
> cold start might be a fun high school science
> project.
>
> Is the idle speed of a modern warm engine locked
> to the CPU's crystal or is
> there a feedback loop setting some pollution or
> mileage parameter?
>
> In the old days (pre computer), there was some
> thermal input to the idle
> speed. I assume it was a bimetalic element.
>
> --
> These are my opinions. I hate spam.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_l
> ists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 08:57:49 -0500 (EST)
> From: John Franke <jmfranke at cox.net>
> To: Martin VE3OAT <ve3oat at storm.ca>, Discussion of precise time and
> frequency measurement <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Some old Time & Frequency stuff for sale,
> eastern Ontario, Canada
> Message-ID: <1876722254.62090.1612706269608 at myemail.cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I would pay $250, via PayPal, including shipping, if you would ship the pile. If not, I would understand. I figured I had to at least give it a shot.
>
> John Franke WA4WDL
> 4500 Ibis Ct
> Portsmouth, VA 23703
>
>
>> On February 6, 2021 at 10:34 PM Martin VE3OAT <ve3oat at storm.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Trying to down-size a bit and these must go, as I will probably never
>> use them again. All units are rack-mountable. Heavy stuff, only
>> local pick-up (in Greely, just south of Ottawa) or can meet within an
>> hour's drive of Ottawa. Value $160, take it all home for $100!
>>
>> 1. and 2. Two General Radio 1123-A digital synchronometers (clocks).
>> Displays time HH:MM:SS. Requires input of 1 MHz or 100 kHz, sine or
>> square wave. Can be synced by local clock pulse, with provision for
>> propagation delay. One (black panel) was working fine when taken out
>> of service. The other one (white panel) worked but did not reset at
>> 23:59 (the old missing reset pulse problem). I never found time to
>> fix it while the first one was working fine. These units are typical
>> GR construction and work reliably, except that the display modules
>> are a bit of a pain to keep working due to recurring contact problems
>> (annual maintenance recommended). With photocopy of the manual and
>> fold-out schematics in a binder. And a box of spare bulbs for the
>> display modules. Needs GR-type power cord. $40 for the pair.
>>
>> 3. Fluke 207-13 VLF Receiver/Phase Comparator.
>> * See Note. Phase comparison receiver, tunes 8.0-31.9 and 60.0
>> kHz. Local standard comparison input 100 kHz or 1 MHz. Modified
>> antenna input circuit. Was working fine when taken out of service,
>> and checked OK in recent "lash-up" test. With bound photocopy of
>> manual with fold-out circuit diagrams, and a box of untested spare
>> circuit cards from a cannibalized Fluke 207. $30.
>>
>> 4. Spectracom 8164 NBS Receiver/Disciplined Oscillator.
>> * See Note. A 60 kHz phase comparison receiver. Local standard
>> input 0.1, 1.0, 5.0, or 10.0 MHz. Modified to add 10 MHz, 100 kHz
>> and 1 Hz TTL outputs, and to remove 12VDC from 10 MHz sine wave
>> outputs (distribution amplifier) to remote sites. Was working fine
>> when taken out of service when WWVB changed to phase modulation.
>> With original manual and diagrams. $30.
>>
>> 5. Kinemetrics/TrueTime 60-TF LF Receiver/Frequency Comparator.
>> * See Note. Phase comparison receiver for 60 kHz, compact
>> construction (1.75-inch rack panel). Local standard comparison input
>> 1 MHz but might work with others. Was working fine when taken out
>> of service, and checked OK in recent "lash-up" test. Digital phase
>> display and strip chart recorder on front, analog voltage output on
>> rear. Unfortunately, no manual or other documentation. $20.
>>
>> 6. Beckman Instruments 905 WWV Receiver.
>> HF AM receiver, all vacuum tubes, selectable channels 2.5, 5, 10, 15,
>> 20, or 25 MHz, with fine tuning, audio filters, internal speaker,
>> S-meter, modified for AGC voltage output on the rear (BNC). With
>> photocopy of the manual and schematic. Working fine but power cord
>> should be replaced. $20.
>>
>> 7. Lavoie LA-800D WWV Frequency Comparator.
>> Compares local standard frequency (50 kHz to 10 MHz) with WWV on 5 or
>> 15 MHz. Vacuum tubes. Scope trace is good but screen has small burn
>> mark (does not affect operation). Tested with 1 and 10 MHz local
>> standards and seems to be working fine, except there is no derived 400
>> kHz standard output (not needed). Probably needs alignment. When fed
>> with a good local standard, it is fun to watch the phase changes on
>> WWV signal caused by propagation. Big and heavy. With 19" cabinet
>> and photocopy of operation and service manual. $20.
>>
>> * NOTE -- The VLF receivers do not work by themselves with the new
>> WWVB signal format. You must first de-phase-modulate the raw 60 kHz
>> WWVB signal to remove the PSK time code modulation before passing the
>> signal to the receiver's antenna input. See the article at :
>> http://maxmcarter.com/rubidium/2012_mod/index.html for one solution.
>>
>>
>> Take all seven units for $100 cash.
>>
>> 73,
>> ... Martin Potter VE3OAT
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 09:48:47 -0500
> From: Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> To: John Franke <jmfranke at cox.net>, Discussion of precise time and
> frequency measurement <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Cc: Martin VE3OAT <ve3oat at storm.ca>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Some old Time & Frequency stuff for sale,
> eastern Ontario, Canada
> Message-ID: <D7147533-779E-42AA-ACBF-FC97BA76DE22 at n1k.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi
>
> There?s six pretty big gizmos there. My local UPS store would charge
> me $20 to $30 a box to pack each of them (and barely do an adequate job).
> Looking up shipping rates from here to there, each of the 6 packages
> would run about $70 to ship. Net would likely be in the $400 to $600 range.
>
> Yes, there?s a lot of guesswork in those numbers. They probably would go
> a bit cheaper via the post office.
>
> Bob
>
>
>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 8:57 AM, John Franke <jmfranke at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> I would pay $250, via PayPal, including shipping, if you would ship the pile. If not, I would understand. I figured I had to at least give it a shot.
>>
>> John Franke WA4WDL
>> 4500 Ibis Ct
>> Portsmouth, VA 23703
>>
>>
>>> On February 6, 2021 at 10:34 PM Martin VE3OAT <ve3oat at storm.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Trying to down-size a bit and these must go, as I will probably never
>>> use them again. All units are rack-mountable. Heavy stuff, only
>>> local pick-up (in Greely, just south of Ottawa) or can meet within an
>>> hour's drive of Ottawa. Value $160, take it all home for $100!
>>>
>>> 1. and 2. Two General Radio 1123-A digital synchronometers (clocks).
>>> Displays time HH:MM:SS. Requires input of 1 MHz or 100 kHz, sine or
>>> square wave. Can be synced by local clock pulse, with provision for
>>> propagation delay. One (black panel) was working fine when taken out
>>> of service. The other one (white panel) worked but did not reset at
>>> 23:59 (the old missing reset pulse problem). I never found time to
>>> fix it while the first one was working fine. These units are typical
>>> GR construction and work reliably, except that the display modules
>>> are a bit of a pain to keep working due to recurring contact problems
>>> (annual maintenance recommended). With photocopy of the manual and
>>> fold-out schematics in a binder. And a box of spare bulbs for the
>>> display modules. Needs GR-type power cord. $40 for the pair.
>>>
>>> 3. Fluke 207-13 VLF Receiver/Phase Comparator.
>>> * See Note. Phase comparison receiver, tunes 8.0-31.9 and 60.0
>>> kHz. Local standard comparison input 100 kHz or 1 MHz. Modified
>>> antenna input circuit. Was working fine when taken out of service,
>>> and checked OK in recent "lash-up" test. With bound photocopy of
>>> manual with fold-out circuit diagrams, and a box of untested spare
>>> circuit cards from a cannibalized Fluke 207. $30.
>>>
>>> 4. Spectracom 8164 NBS Receiver/Disciplined Oscillator.
>>> * See Note. A 60 kHz phase comparison receiver. Local standard
>>> input 0.1, 1.0, 5.0, or 10.0 MHz. Modified to add 10 MHz, 100 kHz
>>> and 1 Hz TTL outputs, and to remove 12VDC from 10 MHz sine wave
>>> outputs (distribution amplifier) to remote sites. Was working fine
>>> when taken out of service when WWVB changed to phase modulation.
>>> With original manual and diagrams. $30.
>>>
>>> 5. Kinemetrics/TrueTime 60-TF LF Receiver/Frequency Comparator.
>>> * See Note. Phase comparison receiver for 60 kHz, compact
>>> construction (1.75-inch rack panel). Local standard comparison input
>>> 1 MHz but might work with others. Was working fine when taken out
>>> of service, and checked OK in recent "lash-up" test. Digital phase
>>> display and strip chart recorder on front, analog voltage output on
>>> rear. Unfortunately, no manual or other documentation. $20.
>>>
>>> 6. Beckman Instruments 905 WWV Receiver.
>>> HF AM receiver, all vacuum tubes, selectable channels 2.5, 5, 10, 15,
>>> 20, or 25 MHz, with fine tuning, audio filters, internal speaker,
>>> S-meter, modified for AGC voltage output on the rear (BNC). With
>>> photocopy of the manual and schematic. Working fine but power cord
>>> should be replaced. $20.
>>>
>>> 7. Lavoie LA-800D WWV Frequency Comparator.
>>> Compares local standard frequency (50 kHz to 10 MHz) with WWV on 5 or
>>> 15 MHz. Vacuum tubes. Scope trace is good but screen has small burn
>>> mark (does not affect operation). Tested with 1 and 10 MHz local
>>> standards and seems to be working fine, except there is no derived 400
>>> kHz standard output (not needed). Probably needs alignment. When fed
>>> with a good local standard, it is fun to watch the phase changes on
>>> WWV signal caused by propagation. Big and heavy. With 19" cabinet
>>> and photocopy of operation and service manual. $20.
>>>
>>> * NOTE -- The VLF receivers do not work by themselves with the new
>>> WWVB signal format. You must first de-phase-modulate the raw 60 kHz
>>> WWVB signal to remove the PSK time code modulation before passing the
>>> signal to the receiver's antenna input. See the article at :
>>> http://maxmcarter.com/rubidium/2012_mod/index.html for one solution.
>>>
>>>
>>> Take all seven units for $100 cash.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> ... Martin Potter VE3OAT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
>
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