[time-nuts] timing lab, remote control
Jacques Tiete
jacques at tiete.org
Sat Jan 13 06:43:42 UTC 2024
Tom, Skip,
Maybe the simplest (and maybe cheapest) solution is to use one of these modules
https://solectroshop.com/en/modulos-ethernet/5220-w5500-lite-ethernet-network-modules-spi-5905323231627.html
W5500 Lite - Ethernet Network Modules SPI
solectroshop.com
Connect a simple Arduino or ESP32-(C3 if you want to go the Open-Source Risc-V way) and a few lines of code that are available on the net.
e.g. https://mischianti.org/esp32-ethernet-w5500-with-plain-http-and-ssl-https/
A simple Ethernet controller always needs some software unfortunately…
Or you can go the FPGA way! No software (at least in the “FPGAâ€â€¦) but needs some tinkering with Verilog, this can be made quite robust in my opinion.(but I'm no Verilog specialist)
https://github.com/alexforencich/verilog-ethernet
alexforencich/verilog-ethernet: Verilog Ethernet components for FPGA implementation
github.com
I am currently designing an I²C/RS-485 flexible extension board using the standard “Ethernet-cable CAT-4,5,6…†but of course this is not meant to be connected to an Ethernet network, just a recycled “Ethernet†cable one to one … but this could be used to remote control some Timenut stuff in the lab…
But the development has stalled because of other “urgent†things.
My initial design, but not yet tested, only for making your gray matter bubbling… ;-)

73’s
Jacques
ON1TJ
> Op 12 jan. 2024, om 09:30 heeft time-nuts-request at lists.febo.com het volgende geschreven:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. timing lab, remote control (Tom Van Baak)
> 2. Re: timing lab, remote control (Azelio Boriani)
> 3. Re: timing lab, remote control (Christophe Huygens)
> 4. Re: timing lab, remote control (paul swed)
> 5. Re: timing lab, remote control (Bob Camp)
> 6. Re: timing lab, remote control (Mike Ingle)
> 7. Re: timing lab, remote control (Eric Garner)
> 8. Re: timing lab, remote control (Scott McGrath)
> 9. Re: timing lab, remote control (Jim Lux)
> 10. Re: timing lab, remote control (Jim Lux)
> 11. Re: timing lab, remote control (James C Cotton)
> 12. Re: timing lab, remote control (Bob Camp)
> 13. Re: timing lab, remote control (Robert LaJeunesse)
> 14. Re: timing lab, remote control (Robert LaJeunesse)
> 15. Re: timing lab, remote control (Eric Scace)
> 16. Re: timing lab, remote control (GEO Badger)
> 17. Re: timing lab, remote control (Jim Lux)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 06:16:00 -0800
> From: Tom Van Baak <tvb at LeapSecond.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] timing lab, remote control
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID: <a678875e-bb4a-58ed-31f8-0d619ddb6248 at LeapSecond.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
> below for his request. Me too.
>
> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>
> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>
> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
> up empty.
>
> Thanks,
> /tvb
>
>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
> number or I/O
>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
> one box is
>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>
>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
> its state would
>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
> motor remotely.
>>
>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
> doesn't exist.
>> Thanks for the time,
>> Skip Withrow
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:52:51 +0100
> From: Azelio Boriani <azelio.boriani at gmail.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID:
> <CAPjwOuKq7Zd+owWQ3zC8ebOiJ62rqpeDaWGHWjtJ4ocCQrLuKQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> It can be done by a PIC and the MAC ENC28J60, there is no way to
> implement something that can stay on an ethernet only by logic gates
> (OK, add some FF), as was long ago possible with the GPIB (for
> example). Operating system free, yes, you can: just an ENC28J60 and a
> suitable microprocessor/microcontroller with a TCPIP library ready to
> use like the Microchip's one. Then you must interact with it using a
> telnet-like connection or UDP packets with your 8 or 16 I/O bits, so a
> minimum of Windows or Linux programming is needed. Or make two boxes
> that just see each other: I will investigate if it can be done by a
> couple of evaluation boards.
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 3:18 PM Tom Van Baak via time-nuts
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>> below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>> up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>> number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>> one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>> its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>> motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>> doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:54:15 +0100
> From: Christophe Huygens <christophe.huygens at kuleuven.be>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Cc: christophe.huygens at kuleuven.be
> Message-ID: <af3bc6e2-d0a8-4ad4-8ef0-256671b02bf2 at kuleuven.be>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> check out
> https://store.ncd.io/product/ethernet-internet-contact-closure-remote-relay-controller-8-channel-solid-state-1-way/
>
> This exists bidirectional also
>
> br
>
> Christophe
>
>
> On 11/01/2024 15:16, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts wrote:
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through.
>> See below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks
>> with as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its
>> remote monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no
>> protocol, no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just
>> two boxes with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one
>> to the other over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project,
>> but rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant
>> amount of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search,
>> but I came up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>> number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are
>> paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input
>> on one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one
>> box, its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>> motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>> doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:11:35 -0500
> From: paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID:
> <CAD2JfAh+jHvG8eMrt-o-BQg32JsRLmBXWPVKy6u-nLHanWxVCg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I believe some of the dataq products ( https://www.dataq.com/ ) will fit
> the bill. I use one of there usb models. It had 8 gpios. But they go bigger
> and also have A/D and D/A IO. They were very price attractive for usb.
> Ethernet seems to be higher.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 9:18 AM Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <
> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>> below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>> up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>> number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>> one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>> its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>> motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>> doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:24:13 -0500
> From: Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Cc: Tom Van Baak <tvb at LeapSecond.com>
> Message-ID: <4B1CFAD3-6192-40D6-B5E5-6AFEA9114FB1 at n1k.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi
>
> I think you are stuck with a pair of RPi’s …..
>
> Bob
>
>> On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:16 AM, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol, no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box, its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:25:33 +0100
> From: Mike Ingle <finndmike62 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID:
> <CA+9RfkTBpB4fX1zyxzF3xm9gwsdKAnH_KUoDG7wp62NrxJ94bw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I remember looking at some serdes link ICs in the early 1990s, but I have
> forgotten their name, and they are probably obsolete now. A related search
> came up with:
> https://eu.mouser.com/datasheet/2/609/MAX9205_MAX9207-3131009.pdf
> It looks like you could buy a couple eval boards from mouser. The price
> hurts but...
>
> good luck. --mike
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 3:18 PM Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <
> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>> below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>> up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>> number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>> one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>> its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>> motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>> doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:00:01 -0800
> From: Eric Garner <garnere at gmail.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID:
> <CABqdsz-Tn_G0ExCCeODiMOVkg5F5AMAxUbn+Kgo7t33dK8wuyQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> This kind of need is pretty common in the PLC/industrial automation world.
>
> Moxa among others makes devices like this.
> https://www.moxa.com/en/products/industrial-edge-connectivity/controllers-and-ios/universal-controllers-and-i-os/iomirror-e3200-series
>
> The search term you're looking for is "IO mirror"
>
> Eric
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 6:18 AM Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <
> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>> below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>> up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>> number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>> one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>> its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>> motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>> doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 11:01:22 -0500
> From: Scott McGrath <scmcgrath at gmail.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID: <1E560F3C-08D2-493F-BF52-99BB2F2119E9 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> National Instruments- www.ni.com makes exactly what you are looking for, new they are a bit spendy but used ones come up frequently on the well known auction site.
>
> There are a variety of them but they are all classified as digital i/o
>
> On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:18 AM, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> LAN, or R-Pi project, but rather a turn-key
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:17:13 -0500
> From: "Jim Lux" <jim at luxfamily.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> Cc:
> Message-ID:
> <1704993433.3wj1e13vb4w4kwwg at webmail.hosting.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
>
>
>
> I've hunted for this too, but the best I found was a RPi at both ends, with some software to send it via TCP/UDP.
> You might look at the industrial controls products - I've not looked recently, and it would definitely be pricey. But that kind of almost turnkey thing is fairly common.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 06:16:00 -0800, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
> below for his request. Me too.
>
> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>
> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>
> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
> up empty.
>
> Thanks,
> /tvb
>
>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
> number or I/O
>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
> one box is
>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>
>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
> its state would
>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
> motor remotely.
>>
>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
> doesn't exist.
>> Thanks for the time,
>> Skip Withrow
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:22:18 -0500
> From: "Jim Lux" <jim at luxfamily.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> Cc:
> Message-ID:
> <1704993738.71dw9t6ego0ck4gk at webmail.hosting.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
>
>
>
> ooh.. $500 each.. That's about what I would expect, but you gave the key thing, a search term.
>
> So this is about what I'd expect, pricewise - RPi, isolated interface card, integration, package, some software.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:00:01 -0800, Eric Garner via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> This kind of need is pretty common in the PLC/industrial automation world.
>
> Moxa among others makes devices like this.
> https://www.moxa.com/en/products/industrial-edge-connectivity/controllers-and-ios/universal-controllers-and-i-os/iomirror-e3200-series
>
> The search term you're looking for is "IO mirror"
>
> Eric
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 6:18 AM Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <
> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>> below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>> up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>> number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>> one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>> its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>> motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>> doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 17:39:37 +0000
> From: James C Cotton <jim.cotton at wmich.edu>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: "time-nuts at lists.febo.com" <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID: <CH0PR08MB7291FA5BD348BB92C30BE24395682 at CH0PR08MB7291.nam
> prd08.prod.outlook.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> These solutions exist in the land of SCADA, industrial control, DIN rail..
>
> Advantech is a vendor, search "iot-ethernet-i-o-modules-adam-6000-6200"...
>
> Jim
> ________________________________
> From: Jim Lux via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 12:17 PM
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Cc: Jim Lux <jim at luxfamily.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
>
>
>
>
>
> I've hunted for this too, but the best I found was a RPi at both ends, with some software to send it via TCP/UDP.
> You might look at the industrial controls products - I've not looked recently, and it would definitely be pricey. But that kind of almost turnkey thing is fairly common.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 06:16:00 -0800, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
> below for his request. Me too.
>
> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>
> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>
> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
> up empty.
>
> Thanks,
> /tvb
>
>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
> number or I/O
>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
> one box is
>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>
>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
> its state would
>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
> motor remotely.
>>
>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
> doesn't exist.
>> Thanks for the time,
>> Skip Withrow
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:52:12 -0500
> From: Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID: <BDCB9BF4-E495-4801-8E7B-1084D9CB8497 at n1k.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi
>
> A pair of $35 each RPi’s and who knows who’s add on boards for (maybe) $50 each gets you quite a ways. Assuming “who knows who†also provides a rational library to support their boards things should not be to far off into the world of insane projects. By the time you add cases, you have made it past $100 each. Pick another brand of add on board, add the supply adapter and you could easily be up around $150 each. Off to a fancier RPi and you could maybe get to $200 … maybe.
>
> Even with the RPi approach, this could get pretty expensive pretty fast.
>
> Do you really escape from bugs and issues with this or that canned solution? There are similar devices that (when you tear them apart) have something like an RPi buried inside. That’s based on chatting with folks who tear this stuff apart for a living. You are saving the hassle of doing it DIY. You now are isolated enough that fixing bugs is more difficult. We don’t live in a perfect world …..
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>> On Jan 11, 2024, at 12:22 PM, Jim Lux via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ooh.. $500 each.. That's about what I would expect, but you gave the key thing, a search term.
>>
>> So this is about what I'd expect, pricewise - RPi, isolated interface card, integration, package, some software.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:00:01 -0800, Eric Garner via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> This kind of need is pretty common in the PLC/industrial automation world.
>>
>> Moxa among others makes devices like this.
>> https://www.moxa.com/en/products/industrial-edge-connectivity/controllers-and-ios/universal-controllers-and-i-os/iomirror-e3200-series
>>
>> The search term you're looking for is "IO mirror"
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 6:18 AM Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>>> below for his request. Me too.
>>>
>>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>>
>>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>>
>>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>>> up empty.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> /tvb
>>>
>>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>>> number or I/O
>>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>>> one box is
>>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>>
>>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>>> its state would
>>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>>> motor remotely.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>>> doesn't exist.
>>>> Thanks for the time,
>>>> Skip Withrow
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:33:07 +0100
> From: Robert LaJeunesse <lajeunesse at mail.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> Message-ID: <trinity-2e8716fb-1046-4488-9a19-123d0efe2095-170499798677
> 3 at 3c-app-mailcom-lxa06>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Here's the output half, 8 relays, remote IP web interface controlled over 10/100 RJ-45 (or simple string commands by RS-485 serial), for under $50:
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Diymore-NC-1000-Ethernet-RJ45-TCP-IP-Remote-Control-Board-8-Channel-Relay-Net-Controller/3934806669
>
> Apparently NC-1000 clones (or maybe the original) are available elsewhere:
> https://www.elecbee.com/en-23923-NC-1000-Ethernet-RJ45-TCP-IP-Remote-Control-Board-with-8-Channels-Relay-Integrated-AC250V-485-Networking-Controller-DC-7-24V
>
> Bob L.
>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 9:16 AM
>> From: "Tom Van Baak via time-nuts" <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
>> Cc: "Tom Van Baak" <tvb at LeapSecond.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] timing lab, remote control
>>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>> below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>> up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>> number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>> one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>> its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>> motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>> doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:48:16 +0100
> From: Robert LaJeunesse <lajeunesse at mail.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> Message-ID: <trinity-514315ad-930e-48b0-a679-77156ae5a7ed-170499889638
> 3 at 3c-app-mailcom-lxa06>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> For the real frugal here is a $12 (total!) solution that requires almost no development effort:
> https://robotzero.one/sending-data-esp8266-to-esp8266/
>
> Using two of these for digital I/O only:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/123866319935
>
> Bob L.
>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 9:16 AM
>> From: "Tom Van Baak via time-nuts" <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
>> Cc: "Tom Van Baak" <tvb at LeapSecond.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] timing lab, remote control
>>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>> below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>> up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>> number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>> one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>> its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>> motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>> doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:45:45 -0700
> From: Eric Scace <eric at scace.org>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Time Nuts email list <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>, Van Baak Tom
> <tvb at LeapSecond.com>
> Cc: Withrow Skip <skip.withrow at gmail.com>
> Message-ID: <3116813B-1CFC-4708-AF4E-3D57B46EFB16 at scace.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi Tom, Skip —
>
> In the broadcast world there are suppliers of GPIO-over-Internet/Ethernet devices. They aren’t cheap, however, as they are usually part of a larger package of devices that send packetized audio (and video).
>
> How much delay/time variance can you tolerate in your applications?
>
> If none of the other devices people suggest will do the job, let me know.
>
> — Eric
>
>> On Jan 11, 2024, at 07:16, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See below for his request. Me too.
>>
>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>
>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol, no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>
>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came up empty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /tvb
>>
>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some number or I/O
>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on one box is
>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>
>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box, its state would
>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a motor remotely.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it doesn't exist.
>>> Thanks for the time,
>>> Skip Withrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 22:21:50 +0000 (UTC)
> From: GEO Badger <w3ab at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: Scott McGrath via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> Message-ID: <1966034974.506443.1705011710129 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Lantronics may have a solution.
> ---
> Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side
> 73 de W3AB/GEO
> WA2LSI, KE6RJW, W6B, W7B
> http://www.w3ab.org
>
> Summers fly by,winters always walk.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 09:01:38 AM PST, Scott McGrath via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> National Instruments- www.ni.com makes exactly what you are looking for, new they are a bit spendy but used ones come up frequently on the well known auction site.
>
> There are a variety of them but they are all classified as digital i/o
>
> On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:18 AM, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> LAN, or R-Pi project, but rather a turn-key
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 20:02:44 -0500
> From: "Jim Lux" <jim at luxfamily.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: timing lab, remote control
> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> Cc:
> Message-ID:
> <1705021364.njt5ni580sc00c8c at webmail.hosting.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'd think that if they're selling into an industrial controls market that it has to be reasonably robust. The functionality is fairly limited in this kind of application, so the software is less likely to be buggy. When I see features like "web access" or "autoupload to cloud" I might get more nervous (if only because that means it's an attack surface for intruders..)
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:52:12 -0500, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> A pair of $35 each RPi’s and who knows who’s add on boards for (maybe) $50 each gets you quite a ways. Assuming “who knows who†also provides a rational library to support their boards things should not be to far off into the world of insane projects. By the time you add cases, you have made it past $100 each. Pick another brand of add on board, add the supply adapter and you could easily be up around $150 each. Off to a fancier RPi and you could maybe get to $200 … maybe.
>
> Even with the RPi approach, this could get pretty expensive pretty fast.
>
> Do you really escape from bugs and issues with this or that canned solution? There are similar devices that (when you tear them apart) have something like an RPi buried inside. That’s based on chatting with folks who tear this stuff apart for a living. You are saving the hassle of doing it DIY. You now are isolated enough that fixing bugs is more difficult. We don’t live in a perfect world …..
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>> On Jan 11, 2024, at 12:22 PM, Jim Lux via time-nuts wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ooh.. $500 each.. That's about what I would expect, but you gave the key thing, a search term.
>>
>> So this is about what I'd expect, pricewise - RPi, isolated interface card, integration, package, some software.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:00:01 -0800, Eric Garner via time-nuts wrote:
>>
>> This kind of need is pretty common in the PLC/industrial automation world.
>>
>> Moxa among others makes devices like this.
>> https://www.moxa.com/en/products/industrial-edge-connectivity/controllers-and-ios/universal-controllers-and-i-os/iomirror-e3200-series
>>
>> The search term you're looking for is "IO mirror"
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 6:18 AM Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There was a posting from Skip a while ago that didn't come through. See
>>> below for his request. Me too.
>>>
>>> In my case, I have an area at home you could call my working bench. I
>>> also have small room, less accessible, where I keep my best clocks with
>>> as little human interference as possible. I'd like to improve its remote
>>> monitoring and control over ethernet.
>>>
>>> So the question is, does anyone make a black box that acts as a
>>> transparent latch or GPIO? I'd like 8 or 16 bits at my bench that when
>>> changed turn into bits in the remote lab. Ideally no setup, no protocol,
>>> no commands, no software, no operating system, no bugs; just two boxes
>>> with N pins on each end and changes are reflected from one to the other
>>> over LAN. TTL/CMOS level is fine. Some latency is ok.
>>>
>>> I'm not looking for yet another WiFi, Arduino/LAN, or R-Pi project, but
>>> rather a turn-key solution that just works. I spent a significant amount
>>> of time on the web, thinking this would be a trivial search, but I came
>>> up empty.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> /tvb
>>>
>>>> I'm looking for a box that has an Ethernet port on one side and some
>>> number or I/O
>>>> (could be from 1 to n) on the other. When two of these boxes are paired
>>>> (by entering their respective IP addresses), the state of an input on
>>> one box is
>>>> reflected in the output of the other box (and vice versa).
>>>>
>>>> An example would be if I had a switch hooked to the input of one box,
>>> its state would
>>>> be reflected in the output of the paired box, such as controlling a
>>> motor remotely.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Perhaps there might be a business opportunity here if it
>>> doesn't exist.
>>>> Thanks for the time,
>>>> Skip Withrow
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
> %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> *****************************************
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