[volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)

Tom Miller tmiller11147 at verizon.net
Thu Feb 7 22:12:43 EST 2013 

They might not take it in without a serial number.

Regards

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Phillips" <john.phillips0 at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)


> You should be able to any unit repaired by Agilent as long as all the 
> parts
> are there for the $3000 flat rate repair and calibration charge.
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:59 PM, J. L. Trantham <jltran at att.net> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The 'value' of a 3458A is based on several issues, not the least of which
>> is
>> supply and demand.  You only have to look at theBay to get an idea of 
>> what
>> units are selling for, both working and non-working.  The fact that the
>> unit
>> passes it's 'Self Test' is not a guarantee that it would be able to be
>> calibrated to published performance specs.
>>
>> Tha Agilent website is very useful in determining an 'upper bound' on the
>> value.  The 3458A is currently orderable and currently supported.  A new
>> 3458A (without options) is available at $9,085 and would come with a 
>> fresh
>> calibration and warranty.
>>
>> Repair Per Incident is available for $2,660.64.  This means that if you
>> have
>> a complete unit, they will repair it for that price.  That also comes 
>> with
>> a
>> fresh calibration.  I don't know if that price includes all recommended
>> upgrades as listed in the Service Notes, of which there are 20, 6 of 
>> which
>> list 'Modification Recommended' and one of which lists 'Modification
>> Available'.  Perhaps someone on the forum knows the answer to this.
>> Certainly Gary Biermann at Agilent can answer this.
>>
>> The fact that your unit does not have a serial number sticker but instead
>> 'MTG PROTO 27' would be concerning as to whether Agilent would consider
>> this
>> a 'complete 3458A', and thus a candidate for repair, or, rather, a
>> 'prototype' or some other descriptor that would imply that it looks like 
>> a
>> 3458A but is really not a 3458A.
>>
>> Both new and newly calibrated units are candidates to add a Repair
>> Agreement, available for $178.68 per year with up to 5 year blocks
>> available
>> for purchase.
>>
>> I note you mentioned firmware REV 2,1.  The current firmware is 9,1.
>> Therefore it would appear that you have a rather old and probably not
>> 'updated' unit.  That plus the 'stored in an attic' history would be
>> concerning about the ability to repair the unit without changing several
>> assemblies, etc.
>>
>> Assuming you could get the unit repaired and updated by Agilent, complete
>> with a fresh calibration, then the maximum value would be $9,085 minus
>> $2,660.64 minus what ever value you place on 'new' over 'old'.
>>
>> Then you are left with an older unit, made in the USA, with no (or 
>> perhaps
>> a
>> reduced) warranty as opposed to a new unit, made in Malaysia, with a
>> warranty.  The question of whether a 'new' Malaysian unit or an 'old'
>> American unit is better is the subject of further discussion and
>> speculation.
>>
>> If the unit cannot be repaired by Agilent, then, in my opinion, the value
>> goes down and approaches the value of the hardware, transformer, etc., 
>> with
>> serious questions about the state and reparability of the assemblies,
>> particularly given the 'stored in an attic' history.
>>
>> Gary Biermann would be very helpful in getting the history and 
>> reparability
>> of the unit.  He would be worth contacting about these issues.  He works 
>> at
>> the Loveland Calibration Facility.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
>> Behalf Of Paul Fox
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 8:54 AM
>> To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)
>>
>> part of me hates to do this, but...   there have been some rule-breakers
>> that ignored the "under $350" limit, and now they've ruined it for
>> everyone. ;-)
>>
>> clearly the research i did into prices for "HP3458a, needs repair" was
>> woefully inadequate.
>>
>> i guess the easiest thing to do is to simply remove the "under $350"
>> part.  that way everyone's working under the same assumptions.  again,
>> sorry.  local buyers still get preference.  (and, if you'd like to chew
>> me out for being a bozo, that's fine, but please do it privately.  maybe
>> i should have used ebay in the first place.  lesson learned.)
>>
>> paul
>>
>> i wrote:
>>  > resurrecting a somewhat older thread --
>>  >
>>  > it's now clear to me that i have little interest in (or time for)
>>  > resurrecting my 3458a.  several people on the list were interested in
>>  > it when i first brought it up, and you were all very helpful.  i'd
>>  > rather not go through the ebay hassle, and i'd rather make it
>>  > available to one of you folks first in any case.
>>  >
>>  > i've put up a small set of pictures, along with a short video of
>>  > the startup sequence at http://www.foxharp.net/hp3458a .  re-reading
>>  > my original list message (below), i see that my startup video didn't
>>  > capture an error message i saw back in october.  so in addition to the
>>  > "110, Calibration required -- ACAL" message in the video, i guess we
>>  > should assume that it sometimes gives "204, "Hardware Failure --
>> Flatness
>>  > DAC Convergence:  198"
>>  >
>>  > i haven't opened the unit, and wasn't really planning on it.  if
>>  > there's something that you'd like to know that will be clear from just
>>  > looking, and if it might appreciably change the unit's value for you,
>>  > let me know and i'll find a screwdriver and take some more pictures.
>>  >
>>  > i have two original (i believe) copies of the manual.  no service
>> manual.
>>  > firmware version is "REV 2,1".
>>  >
>>  > so how about this:  best offer (by private mail) under $350 gets it,
>>  > shipping not included (it looks like shipping will be in the $40 to 
>> $80
>>  > range, once i find a box).  for obvious reasons, a local-to-boston
>>  > transaction will be given a lot of preference.
>>  >
>>  > i'll wait until next wednesday evening (i.e., about a week -- feb 13)
>>  > before choosing a lucky recipient, since i hear some people don't read
>>  > their mail as continuously as i do.
>>  >
>>  > paul
>>  >
>>  > i wrote:
>>  >  > thanks joe, and to the other couple of people who responded
>> privately.
>>
>>  >  > i need to figure out how much of a project i want this to be, and 
>> how
>>  >  > it ranks against all the other projects that i also don't have time
>>  >  > for.  :-)
>>  >  >
>>  >  > i have the full users manual (two copies!), but i don't have 
>> anything
>>  >  > else that speaks GPIB.  i'll play with some of the front panel
>>  >  > commands you've suggested, while i think about what to do.  thanks!
>>  >  >
>>  >  > paul
>>  >  >
>>  >  > j. l. trantham wrote:
>>  >  >  > Paul,
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > First, the meter is worth something if nothing other than parts.
>> It is
>>  >  ...
>>  >  >  > Good luck.
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > Joe
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > -----Original Message-----
>>  >  >  > From: volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com
>> [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
>>  >  >  > Behalf Of Paul Fox
>>  >  >  > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:50 AM
>>  >  >  > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
>>  >  >  > Subject: [volt-nuts] hp 3458a advice
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > hi --
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > i'm not a volt-nuts regular, and not even a precision 
>> measurement
>> nut
>>  >  >  > at all, but given past discussion in the list archives, i think
>> you
>>  >  >  > folks might be able to help.
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > i was recently given an HP 3458a multimeter.  the donor thought 
>> it
>>  >  >  > worked when he last used it, but that was quite a long time ago,
>> and i
>>  >  >  > think it was stored in an attic for some time, so i'm not too
>>  >  >  > surprised that it now doesn't pass self tests. :-/  he mainly
>> wanted
>>  >  >  > it out of his house, along with a bunch of other vintage (sadly
>> mostly
>>  >  >  > non-working) equipment he'd accumulated over the years.
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > the self-test error is:
>>  >  >  >     ERRSTR 204, "Hardware Failure -- Flatness DAC Convergence:
>> 198"
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > judging from past list traffic, repairs on these units are
>>  >  >  > expensive, and it would still need recalibration to be useful, 
>> and
>>  >  >  > there are may be other parts (eeproms?) that may not be good
>>  >  >  > any more.  i'm not really interested in pursuing any of this
>>  >  >  > myself.
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > what's worse is that the unit doesn't have a serial number.  (i
>> assume
>>  >  >  > the s/n would normally be obvious on the rear of the unit.)  it
>> bears a
>>  >  >  > sticker on the back that says "MTG PROTO 27".  i think the unit
>> came
>>  >  >  > from a place that themselves produced reference standards, and
>> they
>>  >  >  > may have gotten a very early model from HP to work with.  that's
>>  >  >  > conjecture.  i haven't opened the unit, so i don't know if there
>> are
>>  >  >  > other clues to its age inside.
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > so:  is this machine useful to anyone?  given the error message
>> above,
>>  >  >  > are there any measurements at all that it might still get 
>> correct,
>> in
>>  >  >  > it's current state?
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  > paul
>>  >  >  > =---------------------
>>  >  >  >  paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's
>> 63.1
>> degrees)
>>  >  >  >
>>  >
>>  > =---------------------
>>  >  paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 30.0
>> degrees)
>>  > _______________________________________________
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>>
>> =---------------------
>>  paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 19.2
>> degrees)
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>
>
>
> -- 
> John Phillips
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