[volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)
John Phillips
john.phillips0 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 7 23:15:52 EST 2013
We bought an expensive Tek scope for $5000 becase Tek said they would
repair it for $5000 but when we sent it in they said it was Tek property
and was still on their books. They confiscated the unit. We had talked to
them about the SN and they had told us they would give us a real SN if we
had it repaired. That was true becase we did not get the chance to have it
repaired.
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:10 PM, John Phillips <john.phillips0 at gmail.com>wrote:
> I read most of the thread. This could be a pre-production unit. The errors
> indicate it could need both the in guard and out guard CPUs. The in guard
> unit (03458-05503) I think is involved with the A/D conversion and that is
> where the flatness error is most likly coming from.
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:48 PM, John Phillips <john.phillips0 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> That is what I get for jumping in without reading the thread.
>> I have sent 2 or 3 units in for them to repair...
>> When they quit selling part I was forced to junk or have them repair.
>> What parts are needed?
>>
>>
>> on Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Tom Miller <tmiller11147 at verizon.net>wrte:
>>
>> They might not take it in without a serial number.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Phillips" <
>>> john.phillips0 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:34 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)
>>>
>>>
>>> You should be able to any unit repaired by Agilent as long as all the
>>>> parts
>>>> are there for the $3000 flat rate repair and calibration charge.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:59 PM, J. L. Trantham <jltran at att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>> The 'value' of a 3458A is based on several issues, not the least of
>>>>> which
>>>>> is
>>>>> supply and demand. You only have to look at theBay to get an idea of
>>>>> what
>>>>> units are selling for, both working and non-working. The fact that the
>>>>> unit
>>>>> passes it's 'Self Test' is not a guarantee that it would be able to be
>>>>> calibrated to published performance specs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tha Agilent website is very useful in determining an 'upper bound' on
>>>>> the
>>>>> value. The 3458A is currently orderable and currently supported. A
>>>>> new
>>>>> 3458A (without options) is available at $9,085 and would come with a
>>>>> fresh
>>>>> calibration and warranty.
>>>>>
>>>>> Repair Per Incident is available for $2,660.64. This means that if you
>>>>> have
>>>>> a complete unit, they will repair it for that price. That also comes
>>>>> with
>>>>> a
>>>>> fresh calibration. I don't know if that price includes all recommended
>>>>> upgrades as listed in the Service Notes, of which there are 20, 6 of
>>>>> which
>>>>> list 'Modification Recommended' and one of which lists 'Modification
>>>>> Available'. Perhaps someone on the forum knows the answer to this.
>>>>> Certainly Gary Biermann at Agilent can answer this.
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that your unit does not have a serial number sticker but
>>>>> instead
>>>>> 'MTG PROTO 27' would be concerning as to whether Agilent would consider
>>>>> this
>>>>> a 'complete 3458A', and thus a candidate for repair, or, rather, a
>>>>> 'prototype' or some other descriptor that would imply that it looks
>>>>> like a
>>>>> 3458A but is really not a 3458A.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both new and newly calibrated units are candidates to add a Repair
>>>>> Agreement, available for $178.68 per year with up to 5 year blocks
>>>>> available
>>>>> for purchase.
>>>>>
>>>>> I note you mentioned firmware REV 2,1. The current firmware is 9,1.
>>>>> Therefore it would appear that you have a rather old and probably not
>>>>> 'updated' unit. That plus the 'stored in an attic' history would be
>>>>> concerning about the ability to repair the unit without changing
>>>>> several
>>>>> assemblies, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Assuming you could get the unit repaired and updated by Agilent,
>>>>> complete
>>>>> with a fresh calibration, then the maximum value would be $9,085 minus
>>>>> $2,660.64 minus what ever value you place on 'new' over 'old'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you are left with an older unit, made in the USA, with no (or
>>>>> perhaps
>>>>> a
>>>>> reduced) warranty as opposed to a new unit, made in Malaysia, with a
>>>>> warranty. The question of whether a 'new' Malaysian unit or an 'old'
>>>>> American unit is better is the subject of further discussion and
>>>>> speculation.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the unit cannot be repaired by Agilent, then, in my opinion, the
>>>>> value
>>>>> goes down and approaches the value of the hardware, transformer, etc.,
>>>>> with
>>>>> serious questions about the state and reparability of the assemblies,
>>>>> particularly given the 'stored in an attic' history.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary Biermann would be very helpful in getting the history and
>>>>> reparability
>>>>> of the unit. He would be worth contacting about these issues. He
>>>>> works at
>>>>> the Loveland Calibration Facility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@**febo.com<volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com>]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Paul Fox
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 8:54 AM
>>>>> To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)
>>>>>
>>>>> part of me hates to do this, but... there have been some
>>>>> rule-breakers
>>>>> that ignored the "under $350" limit, and now they've ruined it for
>>>>> everyone. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> clearly the research i did into prices for "HP3458a, needs repair" was
>>>>> woefully inadequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> i guess the easiest thing to do is to simply remove the "under $350"
>>>>> part. that way everyone's working under the same assumptions. again,
>>>>> sorry. local buyers still get preference. (and, if you'd like to chew
>>>>> me out for being a bozo, that's fine, but please do it privately.
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> i should have used ebay in the first place. lesson learned.)
>>>>>
>>>>> paul
>>>>>
>>>>> i wrote:
>>>>> > resurrecting a somewhat older thread --
>>>>> >
>>>>> > it's now clear to me that i have little interest in (or time for)
>>>>> > resurrecting my 3458a. several people on the list were interested
>>>>> in
>>>>> > it when i first brought it up, and you were all very helpful. i'd
>>>>> > rather not go through the ebay hassle, and i'd rather make it
>>>>> > available to one of you folks first in any case.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > i've put up a small set of pictures, along with a short video of
>>>>> > the startup sequence at http://www.foxharp.net/hp3458a .
>>>>> re-reading
>>>>> > my original list message (below), i see that my startup video didn't
>>>>> > capture an error message i saw back in october. so in addition to
>>>>> the
>>>>> > "110, Calibration required -- ACAL" message in the video, i guess we
>>>>> > should assume that it sometimes gives "204, "Hardware Failure --
>>>>> Flatness
>>>>> > DAC Convergence: 198"
>>>>> >
>>>>> > i haven't opened the unit, and wasn't really planning on it. if
>>>>> > there's something that you'd like to know that will be clear from
>>>>> just
>>>>> > looking, and if it might appreciably change the unit's value for
>>>>> you,
>>>>> > let me know and i'll find a screwdriver and take some more pictures.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > i have two original (i believe) copies of the manual. no service
>>>>> manual.
>>>>> > firmware version is "REV 2,1".
>>>>> >
>>>>> > so how about this: best offer (by private mail) under $350 gets it,
>>>>> > shipping not included (it looks like shipping will be in the $40 to
>>>>> $80
>>>>> > range, once i find a box). for obvious reasons, a local-to-boston
>>>>> > transaction will be given a lot of preference.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > i'll wait until next wednesday evening (i.e., about a week -- feb
>>>>> 13)
>>>>> > before choosing a lucky recipient, since i hear some people don't
>>>>> read
>>>>> > their mail as continuously as i do.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > paul
>>>>> >
>>>>> > i wrote:
>>>>> > > thanks joe, and to the other couple of people who responded
>>>>> privately.
>>>>>
>>>>> > > i need to figure out how much of a project i want this to be,
>>>>> and how
>>>>> > > it ranks against all the other projects that i also don't have
>>>>> time
>>>>> > > for. :-)
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > i have the full users manual (two copies!), but i don't have
>>>>> anything
>>>>> > > else that speaks GPIB. i'll play with some of the front panel
>>>>> > > commands you've suggested, while i think about what to do.
>>>>> thanks!
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > paul
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > j. l. trantham wrote:
>>>>> > > > Paul,
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > First, the meter is worth something if nothing other than
>>>>> parts.
>>>>> It is
>>>>> > ...
>>>>> > > > Good luck.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > Joe
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > > > From: volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com
>>>>> [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@**febo.com <volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com>] On
>>>>> > > > Behalf Of Paul Fox
>>>>> > > > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:50 AM
>>>>> > > > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
>>>>> > > > Subject: [volt-nuts] hp 3458a advice
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > hi --
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > i'm not a volt-nuts regular, and not even a precision
>>>>> measurement
>>>>> nut
>>>>> > > > at all, but given past discussion in the list archives, i
>>>>> think
>>>>> you
>>>>> > > > folks might be able to help.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > i was recently given an HP 3458a multimeter. the donor
>>>>> thought it
>>>>> > > > worked when he last used it, but that was quite a long time
>>>>> ago,
>>>>> and i
>>>>> > > > think it was stored in an attic for some time, so i'm not too
>>>>> > > > surprised that it now doesn't pass self tests. :-/ he mainly
>>>>> wanted
>>>>> > > > it out of his house, along with a bunch of other vintage
>>>>> (sadly
>>>>> mostly
>>>>> > > > non-working) equipment he'd accumulated over the years.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > the self-test error is:
>>>>> > > > ERRSTR 204, "Hardware Failure -- Flatness DAC Convergence:
>>>>> 198"
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > judging from past list traffic, repairs on these units are
>>>>> > > > expensive, and it would still need recalibration to be
>>>>> useful, and
>>>>> > > > there are may be other parts (eeproms?) that may not be good
>>>>> > > > any more. i'm not really interested in pursuing any of this
>>>>> > > > myself.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > what's worse is that the unit doesn't have a serial number.
>>>>> (i
>>>>> assume
>>>>> > > > the s/n would normally be obvious on the rear of the unit.)
>>>>> it
>>>>> bears a
>>>>> > > > sticker on the back that says "MTG PROTO 27". i think the
>>>>> unit
>>>>> came
>>>>> > > > from a place that themselves produced reference standards, and
>>>>> they
>>>>> > > > may have gotten a very early model from HP to work with.
>>>>> that's
>>>>> > > > conjecture. i haven't opened the unit, so i don't know if
>>>>> there
>>>>> are
>>>>> > > > other clues to its age inside.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > so: is this machine useful to anyone? given the error
>>>>> message
>>>>> above,
>>>>> > > > are there any measurements at all that it might still get
>>>>> correct,
>>>>> in
>>>>> > > > it's current state?
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > paul
>>>>> > > > =---------------------
>>>>> > > > paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where
>>>>> it's
>>>>> 63.1
>>>>> degrees)
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > =---------------------
>>>>> > paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 30.0
>>>>> degrees)
>>>>> > ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> > volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts at febo.com
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>>>>> > and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>
>>>>> =---------------------
>>>>> paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 19.2
>>>>> degrees)
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts at febo.com
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Phillips
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Phillips
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Phillips
--
John Phillips
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