[volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Charles Black
cblack at centurytel.net
Mon Aug 18 10:27:52 EDT 2014
Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
"FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see
the TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
Charlie
On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
> Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
> front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
> wrong.
>
> thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
>> the display.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
>>> 0,3458" "Enter".
>>>
>>> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
>>> RANGE
>>>> -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
>>>> guess its no reason to panic yet.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
>>> it
>>>> up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Randy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>
>>>>> You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
>>> You
>>>>> have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
>>>>> calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
>>> factory
>>>>> that
>>>>> way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
>>> from
>>>>> the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
>>>>> inside
>>>>> the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
>>> any
>>>>> CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
>>> as
>>>>> expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
>>> or
>>>>> 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
>>> set
>>> to
>>>>> this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
>>> inside
>>> of
>>>>> the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
>>> to
>>>>> accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
>>> command
>>> and
>>>>> I
>>>>>> get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
>>> this
>>>>>> correctly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
>>> yourself
>>> a
>>>>> "4
>>>>>>> Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
>>> ACAL I
>>>>> now
>>>>>>> read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
>>> that
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
>>> variation
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
>>>>> remember
>>>>>>> I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
>>> with
>>> 100
>>>>> PLC
>>>>>>> the statistics show:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Low reading -70 nVDC
>>>>>>> Mean reading -28 nVDC
>>>>>>> High reading +3.5 nVDC
>>>>>>> Total Variation 73 nVDC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
>>> After
>>> an
>>>>>>> hour
>>>>>>> the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
>>> -000.00023
>>>>> mVDC.
>>>>>>> After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
>>>>> particular
>>>>>>> meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
>>> requiring
>>>>> low
>>>>>>> nanovolts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
>>> choose
>>>>>>> "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
>>> the
>>>>>>> replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
>>> replacement
>>>>> part
>>>>>>> number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
>>>>>>> information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
>>> can
>>>>> just
>>>>>>> order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
>>> have
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> create or use an existing login account.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
>>> could
>>>>> order
>>>>>>> just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
>>> and
>>>>> then
>>>>>>> inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
>>> the
>>>>>>> spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
>>>>> around
>>>>>>> 1.3
>>>>>>> inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
>>>>> display
>>>>>>> board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
>>>>> Board.
>>>>>>> It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
>>> doesn't
>>>>> let
>>>>>>> you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
>>>>> Board
>>>>>>> assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
>>> volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
>>> 73F,
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
>>> reasonable
>>>>>>> value,
>>>>>>>> although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
>>> the
>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>> has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
>>>>> <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
>>> After
>>>>> doing
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
>>> leads
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
>>>>> approximately
>>>>>>>>> -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
>>> unit
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>> the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
>>>>> ACAL.
>>>>>>>>> Anyone have any comments on this reading?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
>>>>> <richiem5683 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
>>>>>>> measurements
>>>>>>>>>> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
>>>>> measurements,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
>>> The
>>>>>>> autocal
>>>>>>>>>> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
>>> on
>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
>>> just
>>>>> got
>>>>> my
>>>>>>> 3458
>>>>>>>>>> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
>>> it
>>>>> up,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
>>> aided
>>>>> by
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> HP
>>>>>>>>>> 3325, and another 3458.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
>>>>> "exchange"
>>>>>>>>>> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
>>> changed)
>>> and
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
>>> chips.
>>>>> I
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
>>> complete,
>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
>>>>> incoming
>>>>>>>>>> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
>>> process
>>> of
>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
>>> good
>>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
>>> 1ppm/year.
>>>>>>>>>> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
>>> --
>>> and
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
>>> until
>>>>>>>>>> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>>> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
>>> first-time
>>>>>>> cals;
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> unit was in their data bank.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
>>> send
>>> it
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
>>> and
>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> should be good to go.
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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