[volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Charles Black
cblack at centurytel.net
Mon Aug 18 17:26:36 EDT 2014
It faster to use alphabetical menu system. Also I forgot to mention that
if you want to recall a recent command just hit the grey button and then
the enter button ("Recall"). This can be done over and over to bring
back older commands.
Charlie
On 8/18/2014 1:46 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
> I finally found it after I realized I had to select the LONG MENU first.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Charles Black <cblack at centurytel.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
>> grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
>> "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
>> hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see the
>> TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
>>
>>> Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
>>> front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
>>> wrong.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
>>>> the display.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Randy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
>>>>> 0,3458" "Enter".
>>>>>
>>>>> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>> You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
>>>>>>
>>>>> RANGE
>>>>>
>>>>>> -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> guess its no reason to panic yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
>>>>>>
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>> up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>> You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You
>>>>>> have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
>>>>>>> calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> factory
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
>>>>>>> inside
>>>>>>> the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
>>>>>> set
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
>>>>>> inside
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>> I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> command
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>> correctly?
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>>>> Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yourself
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>> "4
>>>>>>>> Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
>>>>>>>>> Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ACAL I
>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
>>>>>>>> variation
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>> I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
>>>>>>>>> If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>> 100
>>>>>
>>>>>> PLC
>>>>>>>> the statistics show:
>>>>>>>>> Low reading -70 nVDC
>>>>>>>>> Mean reading -28 nVDC
>>>>>>>>> High reading +3.5 nVDC
>>>>>>>>> Total Variation 73 nVDC
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After
>>>>> an
>>>>>
>>>>>> hour
>>>>>>>>> the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -000.00023
>>>>>> mVDC.
>>>>>>>> After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
>>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>> meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
>>>>>>>>> Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> requiring
>>>>>> low
>>>>>>>> nanovolts.
>>>>>>>>> Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
>>>>>>>> replacement
>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
>>>>>>>>> information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> create or use an existing login account.
>>>>>>>>> I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>> order
>>>>>>>> just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> 1.3
>>>>>>>>> inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>> board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
>>>>>>>> Board.
>>>>>>>> It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>> you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
>>>>>>>> Board
>>>>>>>> assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
>>>>>>>>> 73F,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
>>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>> value,
>>>>>>>>>> although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>> has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
>>>>>>>>>> leads
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
>>>>>>>>>> approximately
>>>>>>>> -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
>>>>>>>>>> unit
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>> the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
>>>>>>>>>> ACAL.
>>>>>>>> Anyone have any comments on this reading?
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <richiem5683 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
>>>>>>>>>>> measurements
>>>>>>>>>> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> measurements,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>> autocal
>>>>>>>>>> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>> got
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3458
>>>>>>>>>> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>> up,
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
>>>>>>>>>>> aided
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> HP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3325, and another 3458.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "exchange"
>>>>>>>> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
>>>>>>>>>>> changed)
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
>>>>>>>>>>> chips.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
>>>>>>>>>>> complete,
>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
>>>>>>>>>>> incoming
>>>>>>>> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
>>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
>>>>>>>>>>> 1ppm/year.
>>>>>> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
>>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
>>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>>> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
>>>>>>>>>>> first-time
>>>>>> cals;
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> unit was in their data bank.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> send
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> should be good to go.
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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