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Manual for Precision Standard Time PST-1030 WWV Receiver?

W
Walt
Thu, Mar 7, 2024 5:58 AM

Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc PST-1030
WWV receivers.  Their inventory labels show they were procured by Lockheed
Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal components have a 1988 date
code.  They function flawlessly, except that I can't get any output at all
from the serial ports.  The MAX232 receiver/driver doesn't appear to have
anything going into the inputs.  It seems that whatever caused the serial
port to fail, has happened to both of them.

The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and the
lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format.  They take 2-3 minutes to
acquire the time and date.

They handle DST and leap years without any problems.  Leap years are
implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001.  The
years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992.

Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual?  I've worn out archive.org
looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can help.  I also
wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030 owners, especially with
regards to the operation of the serial port.

Walt

Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc PST-1030 WWV receivers. Their inventory labels show they were procured by Lockheed Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal components have a 1988 date code. They function flawlessly, except that I can't get any output at all from the serial ports. The MAX232 receiver/driver doesn't appear to have anything going into the inputs. It seems that whatever caused the serial port to fail, has happened to both of them. The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and the lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format. They take 2-3 minutes to acquire the time and date. They handle DST and leap years without any problems. Leap years are implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001. The years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992. Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual? I've worn out archive.org looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can help. I also wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030 owners, especially with regards to the operation of the serial port. Walt
JH
JOHN HARTZELL
Thu, Mar 7, 2024 10:23 AM

Hiya Walt,

Have you tried using a “terminal” program?  Unlikely that both boxes are bad.  Most likely is selecting the correct baud rate.

Kind regards,

John

https://linkedin.com/in/john-h-6a131b12/

On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:26 AM, Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc PST-1030
WWV receivers.  Their inventory labels show they were procured by Lockheed
Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal components have a 1988 date
code.  They function flawlessly, except that I can't get any output at all
from the serial ports.  The MAX232 receiver/driver doesn't appear to have
anything going into the inputs.  It seems that whatever caused the serial
port to fail, has happened to both of them.

The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and the
lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format.  They take 2-3 minutes to
acquire the time and date.

They handle DST and leap years without any problems.  Leap years are
implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001.  The
years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992.

Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual?  I've worn out archive.org
looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can help.  I also
wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030 owners, especially with
regards to the operation of the serial port.

Walt

<PST-1030.jpg>
<1030.pdf>


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To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com

Hiya Walt, Have you tried using a “terminal” program? Unlikely that both boxes are bad. Most likely is selecting the correct baud rate. Kind regards, John https://linkedin.com/in/john-h-6a131b12/ > On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:26 AM, Walt via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc PST-1030 > WWV receivers. Their inventory labels show they were procured by Lockheed > Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal components have a 1988 date > code. They function flawlessly, except that I can't get any output at all > from the serial ports. The MAX232 receiver/driver doesn't appear to have > anything going into the inputs. It seems that whatever caused the serial > port to fail, has happened to both of them. > > > > The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and the > lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format. They take 2-3 minutes to > acquire the time and date. > > > > They handle DST and leap years without any problems. Leap years are > implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001. The > years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992. > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual? I've worn out archive.org > looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can help. I also > wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030 owners, especially with > regards to the operation of the serial port. > > > > Walt > > > > > > > > <PST-1030.jpg> > <1030.pdf> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
PS
paul swed
Thu, Mar 7, 2024 1:42 PM

Walt
Thats a great find and very nice looking.
Given the age of the units, I will suspect that you need to implement the
rs 232 control signals into the port. CTS RTS and I think 2 others. Its
been a while. But look up null modem that should give you guidance on the
pins and wiring. Often a couple of jumpers.
The other thing is it may be serial control using X-on and X off. Download
PUTTY and that will let you see whats going on.
If none of that works a good pix of the inside would be helpful. Most
likely in that time there were real uart ICs and thats the place I would
start to scope out to understand whats up.
Good luck and a great find.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 4:26 AM Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
wrote:

Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc PST-1030
WWV receivers.  Their inventory labels show they were procured by Lockheed
Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal components have a 1988 date
code.  They function flawlessly, except that I can't get any output at all
from the serial ports.  The MAX232 receiver/driver doesn't appear to have
anything going into the inputs.  It seems that whatever caused the serial
port to fail, has happened to both of them.

The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and the
lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format.  They take 2-3 minutes to
acquire the time and date.

They handle DST and leap years without any problems.  Leap years are
implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001.  The
years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992.

Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual?  I've worn out archive.org
looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can help.  I also
wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030 owners, especially with
regards to the operation of the serial port.

Walt


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Walt Thats a great find and very nice looking. Given the age of the units, I will suspect that you need to implement the rs 232 control signals into the port. CTS RTS and I think 2 others. Its been a while. But look up null modem that should give you guidance on the pins and wiring. Often a couple of jumpers. The other thing is it may be serial control using X-on and X off. Download PUTTY and that will let you see whats going on. If none of that works a good pix of the inside would be helpful. Most likely in that time there were real uart ICs and thats the place I would start to scope out to understand whats up. Good luck and a great find. Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 4:26 AM Walt via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc PST-1030 > WWV receivers. Their inventory labels show they were procured by Lockheed > Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal components have a 1988 date > code. They function flawlessly, except that I can't get any output at all > from the serial ports. The MAX232 receiver/driver doesn't appear to have > anything going into the inputs. It seems that whatever caused the serial > port to fail, has happened to both of them. > > > > The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and the > lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format. They take 2-3 minutes to > acquire the time and date. > > > > They handle DST and leap years without any problems. Leap years are > implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001. The > years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992. > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual? I've worn out archive.org > looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can help. I also > wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030 owners, especially with > regards to the operation of the serial port. > > > > Walt > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
W
Walt
Fri, Mar 8, 2024 12:37 AM

Yes, I've been using MobaXterm and RealTerm for Windows to attempt to communicate with the PST-1030.

Your statement that both boxes are not likely to be bad made me revisit the problem with a fresh, optimistic outlook.  The PST-1030 was connected to my PC using a 9-pin FTDI USB-to-RS-232 Converter and a 9F-to-25M null modem cable.  The serial port was set to 9600, 8 bits, no parity. In RealTerm, flow control was set to None.  This time, DCD, DTR and RTS were high.  It never did that before, so this was encouraging.

The dip switch settings are documented in the attached psti.pdf.  It is a scan of Chapter 2 of the user manual, which the late Dr Mills put on his website at Udel, and is still there under the Resources section.

Now his NTP driver docs mentioned a QTQDQM command, which I needed to try.  According to the following page, the PST does not emit timecode data continuously; it must be polled.

https://www.ntp.org/documentation/drivers/driver3/

So I typed QTQDQM into RealTerm and got the first response ever!  See the attached image.  That's the output from QT (time), QD (date), QM (settings and status), and Q?, the only other character pair that produces results.

Chapter 5 of the user manual has more commands, fine-tuning propagation delay correction, for example. That's one reason I'm looking for it.

Walt

-----Original Message-----
From: JOHN HARTZELL via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 2:23 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Walt walt@drizzle.com; JOHN HARTZELL johnhartzell@icloud.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Manual for Precision Standard Time PST-1030 WWV Receiver?

Hiya Walt,

Have you tried using a “terminal” program?  Unlikely that both boxes are bad.  Most likely is selecting the correct baud rate.

Kind regards,

John

https://linkedin.com/in/john-h-6a131b12/

On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:26 AM, Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com wrote:

Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc
PST-1030 WWV receivers.  Their inventory labels show they were
procured by Lockheed Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal
components have a 1988 date code.  They function flawlessly, except
that I can't get any output at all from the serial ports.  The MAX232
receiver/driver doesn't appear to have anything going into the inputs.
It seems that whatever caused the serial port to fail, has happened to both of them.

The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and
the lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format.  They take 2-3
minutes to acquire the time and date.

They handle DST and leap years without any problems.  Leap years are
implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001.
The years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992.

Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual?  I've worn out
archive.org looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can
help.  I also wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030
owners, especially with regards to the operation of the serial port.

Walt

<PST-1030.jpg>
<1030.pdf>


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send
an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com


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Yes, I've been using MobaXterm and RealTerm for Windows to attempt to communicate with the PST-1030. Your statement that both boxes are not likely to be bad made me revisit the problem with a fresh, optimistic outlook. The PST-1030 was connected to my PC using a 9-pin FTDI USB-to-RS-232 Converter and a 9F-to-25M null modem cable. The serial port was set to 9600, 8 bits, no parity. In RealTerm, flow control was set to None. This time, DCD, DTR and RTS were high. It never did that before, so this was encouraging. The dip switch settings are documented in the attached psti.pdf. It is a scan of Chapter 2 of the user manual, which the late Dr Mills put on his website at Udel, and is still there under the Resources section. Now his NTP driver docs mentioned a QTQDQM command, which I needed to try. According to the following page, the PST does not emit timecode data continuously; it must be polled. https://www.ntp.org/documentation/drivers/driver3/ So I typed QTQDQM into RealTerm and got the first response ever! See the attached image. That's the output from QT (time), QD (date), QM (settings and status), and Q?, the only other character pair that produces results. Chapter 5 of the user manual has more commands, fine-tuning propagation delay correction, for example. That's one reason I'm looking for it. Walt -----Original Message----- From: JOHN HARTZELL via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 2:23 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> Cc: Walt <walt@drizzle.com>; JOHN HARTZELL <johnhartzell@icloud.com> Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Manual for Precision Standard Time PST-1030 WWV Receiver? Hiya Walt, Have you tried using a “terminal” program? Unlikely that both boxes are bad. Most likely is selecting the correct baud rate. Kind regards, John https://linkedin.com/in/john-h-6a131b12/ > On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:26 AM, Walt via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc > PST-1030 WWV receivers. Their inventory labels show they were > procured by Lockheed Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal > components have a 1988 date code. They function flawlessly, except > that I can't get any output at all from the serial ports. The MAX232 > receiver/driver doesn't appear to have anything going into the inputs. > It seems that whatever caused the serial port to fail, has happened to both of them. > > > > The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and > the lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format. They take 2-3 > minutes to acquire the time and date. > > > > They handle DST and leap years without any problems. Leap years are > implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001. > The years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992. > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual? I've worn out > archive.org looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can > help. I also wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030 > owners, especially with regards to the operation of the serial port. > > > > Walt > > > > > > > > <PST-1030.jpg> > <1030.pdf> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
PS
paul swed
Fri, Mar 8, 2024 2:18 PM

Walt congratulations on finding the documentation. At least some of it. I
tried to find some also without luck.
I find it very odd that the unit does not continuously send out timecode.
Otherwise it makes it very hard for some automation to use it. Like a stop
light or anything that has to wait for time to do something.
I have run into GPS modules that do not put a stream out until you send a
special command.
I wonder if the same is true with the 1030?
Its possible that its intended to support some automation system with a
internal clock that does reach out to correct its drift.
All in all nice looking units.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 1:00 AM Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
wrote:

Yes, I've been using MobaXterm and RealTerm for Windows to attempt to
communicate with the PST-1030.

Your statement that both boxes are not likely to be bad made me revisit
the problem with a fresh, optimistic outlook.  The PST-1030 was connected
to my PC using a 9-pin FTDI USB-to-RS-232 Converter and a 9F-to-25M null
modem cable.  The serial port was set to 9600, 8 bits, no parity. In
RealTerm, flow control was set to None.  This time, DCD, DTR and RTS were
high.  It never did that before, so this was encouraging.

The dip switch settings are documented in the attached psti.pdf.  It is a
scan of Chapter 2 of the user manual, which the late Dr Mills put on his
website at Udel, and is still there under the Resources section.

Now his NTP driver docs mentioned a QTQDQM command, which I needed to
try.  According to the following page, the PST does not emit timecode data
continuously; it must be polled.

https://www.ntp.org/documentation/drivers/driver3/

So I typed QTQDQM into RealTerm and got the first response ever!  See the
attached image.  That's the output from QT (time), QD (date), QM (settings
and status), and Q?, the only other character pair that produces results.

Chapter 5 of the user manual has more commands, fine-tuning propagation
delay correction, for example. That's one reason I'm looking for it.

Walt

-----Original Message-----
From: JOHN HARTZELL via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 2:23 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
Cc: Walt walt@drizzle.com; JOHN HARTZELL johnhartzell@icloud.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Manual for Precision Standard Time PST-1030 WWV
Receiver?

Hiya Walt,

Have you tried using a “terminal” program?  Unlikely that both boxes are
bad.  Most likely is selecting the correct baud rate.

Kind regards,

John

https://linkedin.com/in/john-h-6a131b12/

On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:26 AM, Walt via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com

wrote:

Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc
PST-1030 WWV receivers.  Their inventory labels show they were
procured by Lockheed Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal
components have a 1988 date code.  They function flawlessly, except
that I can't get any output at all from the serial ports.  The MAX232
receiver/driver doesn't appear to have anything going into the inputs.
It seems that whatever caused the serial port to fail, has happened to

both of them.

The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and
the lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format.  They take 2-3
minutes to acquire the time and date.

They handle DST and leap years without any problems.  Leap years are
implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001.
The years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992.

Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual?  I've worn out
archive.org looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can
help.  I also wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030
owners, especially with regards to the operation of the serial port.

Walt

<PST-1030.jpg>
<1030.pdf>


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send
an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com


time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an
email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com


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Walt congratulations on finding the documentation. At least some of it. I tried to find some also without luck. I find it very odd that the unit does not continuously send out timecode. Otherwise it makes it very hard for some automation to use it. Like a stop light or anything that has to wait for time to do something. I have run into GPS modules that do not put a stream out until you send a special command. I wonder if the same is true with the 1030? Its possible that its intended to support some automation system with a internal clock that does reach out to correct its drift. All in all nice looking units. Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 1:00 AM Walt via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Yes, I've been using MobaXterm and RealTerm for Windows to attempt to > communicate with the PST-1030. > > Your statement that both boxes are not likely to be bad made me revisit > the problem with a fresh, optimistic outlook. The PST-1030 was connected > to my PC using a 9-pin FTDI USB-to-RS-232 Converter and a 9F-to-25M null > modem cable. The serial port was set to 9600, 8 bits, no parity. In > RealTerm, flow control was set to None. This time, DCD, DTR and RTS were > high. It never did that before, so this was encouraging. > > The dip switch settings are documented in the attached psti.pdf. It is a > scan of Chapter 2 of the user manual, which the late Dr Mills put on his > website at Udel, and is still there under the Resources section. > > Now his NTP driver docs mentioned a QTQDQM command, which I needed to > try. According to the following page, the PST does not emit timecode data > continuously; it must be polled. > > https://www.ntp.org/documentation/drivers/driver3/ > > So I typed QTQDQM into RealTerm and got the first response ever! See the > attached image. That's the output from QT (time), QD (date), QM (settings > and status), and Q?, the only other character pair that produces results. > > Chapter 5 of the user manual has more commands, fine-tuning propagation > delay correction, for example. That's one reason I'm looking for it. > > Walt > > -----Original Message----- > From: JOHN HARTZELL via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 2:23 AM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement < > time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > Cc: Walt <walt@drizzle.com>; JOHN HARTZELL <johnhartzell@icloud.com> > Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Manual for Precision Standard Time PST-1030 WWV > Receiver? > > Hiya Walt, > > Have you tried using a “terminal” program? Unlikely that both boxes are > bad. Most likely is selecting the correct baud rate. > > Kind regards, > > John > > https://linkedin.com/in/john-h-6a131b12/ > > > > > > On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:26 AM, Walt via time-nuts <time-nuts@lists.febo.com> > wrote: > > > > Five months ago I acquired a pair of Precision Standard Time Inc > > PST-1030 WWV receivers. Their inventory labels show they were > > procured by Lockheed Martin Space Systems in 1989, and the internal > > components have a 1988 date code. They function flawlessly, except > > that I can't get any output at all from the serial ports. The MAX232 > > receiver/driver doesn't appear to have anything going into the inputs. > > It seems that whatever caused the serial port to fail, has happened to > both of them. > > > > > > > > The upper unit is set to my local TZ (GMT-8) in 12-hour format, and > > the lower unit is set to GMT and 24-hour format. They take 2-3 > > minutes to acquire the time and date. > > > > > > > > They handle DST and leap years without any problems. Leap years are > > implemented by using 4 dip switches to set the year from 1986 to 2001. > > The years wrap around, mod 16, so for 2024, you merely set it to 1992. > > > > > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the 70-page manual? I've worn out > > archive.org looking for it, and so am hoping someone out there can > > help. I also wouldn't mind hearing from other PST-1010/1020/1030 > > owners, especially with regards to the operation of the serial port. > > > > > > > > Walt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <PST-1030.jpg> > > <1030.pdf> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send > > an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
EE
Erik E. Fair
Sat, Mar 9, 2024 5:53 AM

That WWV radio clock brings up some memories.

I deployed the second stratum 1 NTP server on the Internet in 1989 at Apple Computer with a PSTI model 1020 WWV radio clock attached to the VAX-8650 (4.3 BSD Unix) that was "apple.com" at that time, running xntpd. Someone else at Apple had bought that radio clock, played with it in an Advanced Technology Group (ATG) lab for a while, and then abandoned it. When I found out it existed and no one was using it, I asked if I could have it for the "Apple VAX" ...

https://www.ntp.org/documentation/drivers/driver3/

Notice: driver #3 - written by Dave Mills (R.I.P.) himself. I remember the leap year DIP switches that annoyingly had to be fussed with - I wanted something I could set & forget rather than have to set a calendar(1) reminder to perform maintenance on it periodically.

I took a look at an old (but likely unchanged) copy of ntpd source code I have, and the serial port setup for all "reference clock" drivers is in ntpd/ntp_refclock.c with the specific stuff (polling command, interpretation of clock output) in ntpd/reflcock_pst.c - the comments in the code are substantially the same as in the URL above. The serial port settings are available in a range of Unix kernel API flavors: BSD, System V, TermIOs, and even some Windows thing. You should be able to get a sense of the radio clock interaction model from this code - though it looks like Dave opted for KISS: 320 lines of C code in this version. The Generic NMEA-183 driver (#20) source is 6x bigger.

I'd bet that the model 1030 is pretty similar to the model 1020.

The Apple VAX was on the top (3rd) floor of Mariani 1 (20525 Mariani Avenue, Cupertino, CA; the Apple Computer HQ building for a time) in a small machine room dedicated to it, along with the Cisco router & other network gear to connect to the Internet. There was a west-facing window overlooking the parking lot, and WWV signal was good enough in the room that I didn't have to run an antenna outside.

On July 11, 1989, Dave Mills goofed a fuzzball software release, and the fuzzballs stopped serving time to everyone other than themselves. I noticed, poked around that night (Dave fixed the bug the next day), and had an idea:

https://www.clock.org/clock.org.html

Others have had variants of this idea and actually implemented some of it at ntp.org, but none so far that I've seen have tried to optimize for minimum hops between NTP servers/clients (minimize remote clock jitter induced from variable network latency) and dynamically configured NTP peering for resiliency against disaster-induced disconnection, something I can tell you about because in October 1989, Apple (and I) suffered the Loma Prieta 6.9m Earthquake ...

It's interesting that the "positioning, navigation, timing" (PNT) community is pushing for the revival of LORAN as a resiliency measure against GPS/GNSS failure - I hope that Congress funds that to full deployment of eLORAN.

MacOS 7 got a third-party NTP client in a "control panel" from Pete Resnick in 1990, distributed for free - though I caught up with Pete at an IETF meeting and paid him a $5 shareware fee in cash in the terminal room. When they saw me do that, a number of other engineers with Macs in the terminal room ponied up at the same time.

https://www.macintoshrepository.org/2248-network-time

After I was laid off from Apple in 1997, Apple deployed a much more professional NTP server constellation: time.apple.com (and time.{euro,asia}.apple.com), and subsequently added an SNTP client in MacOS 8.5 (1998) with those DNS hostnames encoded as defaults (configured grossly by continental sales region - likely part of Apple's "localization" efforts in software) so that all Macs would keep good time.

Erik Fair
That WWV radio clock brings up some memories. I deployed the second stratum 1 NTP server on the Internet in 1989 at Apple Computer with a PSTI model 1020 WWV radio clock attached to the VAX-8650 (4.3 BSD Unix) that was "apple.com" at that time, running xntpd. Someone else at Apple had bought that radio clock, played with it in an Advanced Technology Group (ATG) lab for a while, and then abandoned it. When I found out it existed and no one was using it, I asked if I could have it for the "Apple VAX" ... https://www.ntp.org/documentation/drivers/driver3/ Notice: driver #3 - written by Dave Mills (R.I.P.) himself. I remember the leap year DIP switches that annoyingly had to be fussed with - I wanted something I could set & forget rather than have to set a calendar(1) reminder to perform maintenance on it periodically. I took a look at an old (but likely unchanged) copy of ntpd source code I have, and the serial port setup for all "reference clock" drivers is in ntpd/ntp_refclock.c with the specific stuff (polling command, interpretation of clock output) in ntpd/reflcock_pst.c - the comments in the code are substantially the same as in the URL above. The serial port settings are available in a range of Unix kernel API flavors: BSD, System V, TermIOs, and even some Windows thing. You should be able to get a sense of the radio clock interaction model from this code - though it looks like Dave opted for KISS: 320 lines of C code in this version. The Generic NMEA-183 driver (#20) source is 6x bigger. I'd bet that the model 1030 is pretty similar to the model 1020. The Apple VAX was on the top (3rd) floor of Mariani 1 (20525 Mariani Avenue, Cupertino, CA; the Apple Computer HQ building for a time) in a small machine room dedicated to it, along with the Cisco router & other network gear to connect to the Internet. There was a west-facing window overlooking the parking lot, and WWV signal was good enough in the room that I didn't have to run an antenna outside. On July 11, 1989, Dave Mills goofed a fuzzball software release, and the fuzzballs stopped serving time to everyone other than themselves. I noticed, poked around that night (Dave fixed the bug the next day), and had an idea: https://www.clock.org/clock.org.html Others have had variants of this idea and actually implemented some of it at ntp.org, but none so far that I've seen have tried to optimize for minimum hops between NTP servers/clients (minimize remote clock jitter induced from variable network latency) and dynamically configured NTP peering for resiliency against disaster-induced disconnection, something I can tell you about because in October 1989, Apple (and I) suffered the Loma Prieta 6.9m Earthquake ... It's interesting that the "positioning, navigation, timing" (PNT) community is pushing for the revival of LORAN as a resiliency measure against GPS/GNSS failure - I hope that Congress funds that to full deployment of eLORAN. MacOS 7 got a third-party NTP client in a "control panel" from Pete Resnick in 1990, distributed for free - though I caught up with Pete at an IETF meeting and paid him a $5 shareware fee in cash in the terminal room. When they saw me do that, a number of other engineers with Macs in the terminal room ponied up at the same time. https://www.macintoshrepository.org/2248-network-time After I was laid off from Apple in 1997, Apple deployed a much more professional NTP server constellation: time.apple.com (and time.{euro,asia}.apple.com), and subsequently added an SNTP client in MacOS 8.5 (1998) with those DNS hostnames encoded as defaults (configured grossly by continental sales region - likely part of Apple's "localization" efforts in software) so that all Macs would keep good time. Erik Fair
EE
Erik E. Fair
Sat, Mar 9, 2024 2:42 PM

One correction to my previous email: not "second NTP server", but "second Unix-based NTP server" on the Internet. The first was bitsy.mit.edu in Jeff Schiller's office, which was also, IIRC, the primary MIT Kerberos (cryptographic authentication) server for MIT Project Athena. The Kerberos protocol has time bounds on the validity of its keys & tokens, so good time is an important support service.

All the rest of the stratum 1 NTP servers on the Internet in 1989 were Dave Mills' Fuzzball systems, former backbone routers for the first NSFNET backbone.

Erik Fair
One correction to my previous email: not "second NTP server", but "second Unix-based NTP server" on the Internet. The first was bitsy.mit.edu in Jeff Schiller's office, which was also, IIRC, the primary MIT Kerberos (cryptographic authentication) server for MIT Project Athena. The Kerberos protocol has time bounds on the validity of its keys & tokens, so good time is an important support service. All the rest of the stratum 1 NTP servers on the Internet in 1989 were Dave Mills' Fuzzball systems, former backbone routers for the first NSFNET backbone. Erik Fair