On 26.03.2024 08:30, Hal Murray <halmurray@sonic.net> wrote: > Europe expects electric clocks to keep good time. Or did a few years ago when > they were off by 6 minutes. Anybody know if their power companies are trying > to drop that constraint? The current situation in Europe can be seen here in almost real-time: https://www.swissgrid.ch/en/home/operation/grid-data/current-data.html You may want to scroll to the very bottom of that page. I find the ~150° phase difference between Agios Stefanos (north of Athens, Greece) and Thessaloniki (about 300km further north) interesting ... what are they doing? - Stefan

On 3/26/2024 3:47 AM, Stefan Hegnauer via time-nuts wrote: > On 26.03.2024 08:30, Hal Murray <halmurray@sonic.net> wrote: >> Europe expects electric clocks to keep good time.  Or did a few years >> ago when >> they were off by 6 minutes.  Anybody know if their power companies >> are trying >> to drop that constraint? > > The current situation in Europe can be seen here in almost real-time: > https://www.swissgrid.ch/en/home/operation/grid-data/current-data.html > > You may want to scroll to the very bottom of that page. I find the > ~150° phase difference between Agios Stefanos (north of Athens, > Greece) and Thessaloniki (about 300km further north) interesting ... > what are they doing? > > - Stefan > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com      One thing that can explain phase differences between different points on a grid is VAR production.   VARs (volt amp reactive) are the result of loads not being purely resistive.   Homes tend to be resistive but factories tend to be inductive. A load that is the result of a lot of motors will be inductive. The utility must produce not only the Watts that the grid demands but also the VARs needed.     A power plant that produces more VARs on a grid will have a constant phase difference from a plant on the same grid producing less VARs.   A generator can even produce negative VARs.   This might be called volt amps capacitive but that term is not used.   Long transmission lines tend to be capacitive.     Since VARs are not power they do not require fuel to produce them. However they do need to be transmitted and transmitting VARs are just as lossy as transmitting watts.   The locations where VARs are needed does not overlay well with the locations where Watts are needed.   Thus, VARs need to flow through the grid in a different pattern then Watts.     A particular power plant that is in an industrial area may produce electricity that is unusually unbalanced.   It may produce many more VARs than Watts because the local load needs the VARs.   Since VARs cost money to transmit a utility will strive to generate them locally.