Ok, this feels a bit like a Rogers ad but it's really cool tech and the
video includes some looks at some of the Rogers calibration fixtures.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
HI Trevor...
Thanks for that. It is really fantastic what he has done, and it's more of an ad for the 3D printing outfit than for Rogers.
And the guys on this list already are quite familiar with the brand, so should be no issue.
Anyway, I wonder if it could be accomplished using a home printer setup? Seems like printing in a bath would be a challenge;
maybe a laser beam is involved?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 2:09 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] 3d printed microwave antennas
Ok, this feels a bit like a Rogers ad but it's really cool tech and the
video includes some looks at some of the Rogers calibration fixtures.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
yea, it's typically stereo laser sintering (SLS) for this sort of thing
which uses UV cured resin with a UV laser. It flash cures the bottom layer
of the print volume and pulls the print up and out. You can get very
inexpensive home SLS printers (a couple hundred dollars in some cases) but
the resin is quite expensive. In this case, Rogers and the printer company
have developed some sort of circulation system to keep the suspended
particulates evenly distributed in the liquid resin and that, along with
the exact makeup of that resin, are the secret sauce. I suspect the printer
company just happens to have very customizable production level printers
since they seem to specialize in niche resins. I wouldn't be surprised in
the printers are 50 to 100k as they are designed for volume production.
(that's assuming you could get one of those special Rogers circulators)
That said, you might be able to buy some of the resin and make small prints
are relatively low frequencies (they seem to support X band and S band
currently). You'd have to put it in a rotator for a few hours to ensure
it's homogeneous and add a little at a time as the object printed and stick
with a pretty small print that wouldn't take 10s of hours. Sounds like a
good experiment for someone.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 2:43 PM TomH via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
wrote:
HI Trevor...
Thanks for that. It is really fantastic what he has done, and it's more of
an ad for the 3D printing outfit than for Rogers.
And the guys on this list already are quite familiar with the brand, so
should be no issue.
Anyway, I wonder if it could be accomplished using a home printer setup?
Seems like printing in a bath would be a challenge;
maybe a laser beam is involved?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 2:09 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] 3d printed microwave antennas
Ok, this feels a bit like a Rogers ad but it's really cool tech and the
video includes some looks at some of the Rogers calibration fixtures.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
So I did a little looking. The inexpensive printer I was thinking of is a
bit more expensive now but still affordable and supposedly has decent
resolution and repeatability.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832735673766.html
You can buy the Rogers Radix resis. It's $1800 a liter so I don't expect
I'll be running this experiment any time soon.
https://shop.3dfortify.com/products/radix%E2%84%A2-printable-dielectric-resin
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:00 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
yea, it's typically stereo laser sintering (SLS) for this sort of thing
which uses UV cured resin with a UV laser. It flash cures the bottom layer
of the print volume and pulls the print up and out. You can get very
inexpensive home SLS printers (a couple hundred dollars in some cases) but
the resin is quite expensive. In this case, Rogers and the printer company
have developed some sort of circulation system to keep the suspended
particulates evenly distributed in the liquid resin and that, along with
the exact makeup of that resin, are the secret sauce. I suspect the printer
company just happens to have very customizable production level printers
since they seem to specialize in niche resins. I wouldn't be surprised in
the printers are 50 to 100k as they are designed for volume production.
(that's assuming you could get one of those special Rogers circulators)
That said, you might be able to buy some of the resin and make small
prints are relatively low frequencies (they seem to support X band and S
band currently). You'd have to put it in a rotator for a few hours to
ensure it's homogeneous and add a little at a time as the object printed
and stick with a pretty small print that wouldn't take 10s of hours. Sounds
like a good experiment for someone.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 2:43 PM TomH via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
HI Trevor...
Thanks for that. It is really fantastic what he has done, and it's more
of an ad for the 3D printing outfit than for Rogers.
And the guys on this list already are quite familiar with the brand, so
should be no issue.
Anyway, I wonder if it could be accomplished using a home printer setup?
Seems like printing in a bath would be a challenge;
maybe a laser beam is involved?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 2:09 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] 3d printed microwave antennas
Ok, this feels a bit like a Rogers ad but it's really cool tech and the
video includes some looks at some of the Rogers calibration fixtures.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
They do have all of the components including the 3D printer available on
their website. The printer page is password protected so I suspect you need
an NDA or something. They do list the price however, $185k with the Rogers
special sauce included. Not terribly more than the same model without the
Rogers system ($165k) so if you were a business looking to sell microwave
3d printing services, an RF contractor, etc. it's not a horrible cost of
ownership.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:03 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
So I did a little looking. The inexpensive printer I was thinking of is a
bit more expensive now but still affordable and supposedly has decent
resolution and repeatability.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832735673766.html
You can buy the Rogers Radix resis. It's $1800 a liter so I don't expect
I'll be running this experiment any time soon.
https://shop.3dfortify.com/products/radix%E2%84%A2-printable-dielectric-resin
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:00 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
yea, it's typically stereo laser sintering (SLS) for this sort of thing
which uses UV cured resin with a UV laser. It flash cures the bottom layer
of the print volume and pulls the print up and out. You can get very
inexpensive home SLS printers (a couple hundred dollars in some cases) but
the resin is quite expensive. In this case, Rogers and the printer company
have developed some sort of circulation system to keep the suspended
particulates evenly distributed in the liquid resin and that, along with
the exact makeup of that resin, are the secret sauce. I suspect the printer
company just happens to have very customizable production level printers
since they seem to specialize in niche resins. I wouldn't be surprised in
the printers are 50 to 100k as they are designed for volume production.
(that's assuming you could get one of those special Rogers circulators)
That said, you might be able to buy some of the resin and make small
prints are relatively low frequencies (they seem to support X band and S
band currently). You'd have to put it in a rotator for a few hours to
ensure it's homogeneous and add a little at a time as the object printed
and stick with a pretty small print that wouldn't take 10s of hours. Sounds
like a good experiment for someone.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 2:43 PM TomH via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
HI Trevor...
Thanks for that. It is really fantastic what he has done, and it's more
of an ad for the 3D printing outfit than for Rogers.
And the guys on this list already are quite familiar with the brand, so
should be no issue.
Anyway, I wonder if it could be accomplished using a home printer setup?
Seems like printing in a bath would be a challenge;
maybe a laser beam is involved?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 2:09 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] 3d printed microwave antennas
Ok, this feels a bit like a Rogers ad but it's really cool tech and the
video includes some looks at some of the Rogers calibration fixtures.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
That printer doesn't appear to be a bath type like in the YT video, but I could easily be uninformed on that. It is pretty
inexpensive, though. I got the impression the part in the video was actually printed submerged, because I thought I saw it
being removed from under the liquid level. That was partly why there were so many cleaning steps.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 3:03 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 3d printed microwave antennas
So I did a little looking. The inexpensive printer I was thinking of is a
bit more expensive now but still affordable and supposedly has decent
resolution and repeatability.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832735673766.html
You can buy the Rogers Radix resis. It's $1800 a liter so I don't expect
I'll be running this experiment any time soon.
https://shop.3dfortify.com/products/radix%E2%84%A2-printable-dielectric-resin
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:00 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
yea, it's typically stereo laser sintering (SLS) for this sort of thing
which uses UV cured resin with a UV laser. It flash cures the bottom layer
of the print volume and pulls the print up and out. You can get very
inexpensive home SLS printers (a couple hundred dollars in some cases) but
the resin is quite expensive. In this case, Rogers and the printer company
have developed some sort of circulation system to keep the suspended
particulates evenly distributed in the liquid resin and that, along with
the exact makeup of that resin, are the secret sauce. I suspect the printer
company just happens to have very customizable production level printers
since they seem to specialize in niche resins. I wouldn't be surprised in
the printers are 50 to 100k as they are designed for volume production.
(that's assuming you could get one of those special Rogers circulators)
That said, you might be able to buy some of the resin and make small
prints are relatively low frequencies (they seem to support X band and S
band currently). You'd have to put it in a rotator for a few hours to
ensure it's homogeneous and add a little at a time as the object printed
and stick with a pretty small print that wouldn't take 10s of hours. Sounds
like a good experiment for someone.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 2:43 PM TomH via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
HI Trevor...
Thanks for that. It is really fantastic what he has done, and it's more
of an ad for the 3D printing outfit than for Rogers.
And the guys on this list already are quite familiar with the brand, so
should be no issue.
Anyway, I wonder if it could be accomplished using a home printer setup?
Seems like printing in a bath would be a challenge;
maybe a laser beam is involved?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 2:09 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] 3d printed microwave antennas
Ok, this feels a bit like a Rogers ad but it's really cool tech and the
video includes some looks at some of the Rogers calibration fixtures.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
Yeah, could probably pay for it fairly quickly, although chasing the technology improvements over time could be a risk factor
if not sufficiently funded or technically adept. Certainly cold be viable for small volume runs.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 3:08 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 3d printed microwave antennas
They do have all of the components including the 3D printer available on
their website. The printer page is password protected so I suspect you need
an NDA or something. They do list the price however, $185k with the Rogers
special sauce included. Not terribly more than the same model without the
Rogers system ($165k) so if you were a business looking to sell microwave
3d printing services, an RF contractor, etc. it's not a horrible cost of
ownership.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:03 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
So I did a little looking. The inexpensive printer I was thinking of is a
bit more expensive now but still affordable and supposedly has decent
resolution and repeatability.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832735673766.html
You can buy the Rogers Radix resis. It's $1800 a liter so I don't expect
I'll be running this experiment any time soon.
https://shop.3dfortify.com/products/radix%E2%84%A2-printable-dielectric-resin
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:00 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
yea, it's typically stereo laser sintering (SLS) for this sort of thing
which uses UV cured resin with a UV laser. It flash cures the bottom layer
of the print volume and pulls the print up and out. You can get very
inexpensive home SLS printers (a couple hundred dollars in some cases) but
the resin is quite expensive. In this case, Rogers and the printer company
have developed some sort of circulation system to keep the suspended
particulates evenly distributed in the liquid resin and that, along with
the exact makeup of that resin, are the secret sauce. I suspect the printer
company just happens to have very customizable production level printers
since they seem to specialize in niche resins. I wouldn't be surprised in
the printers are 50 to 100k as they are designed for volume production.
(that's assuming you could get one of those special Rogers circulators)
That said, you might be able to buy some of the resin and make small
prints are relatively low frequencies (they seem to support X band and S
band currently). You'd have to put it in a rotator for a few hours to
ensure it's homogeneous and add a little at a time as the object printed
and stick with a pretty small print that wouldn't take 10s of hours. Sounds
like a good experiment for someone.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 2:43 PM TomH via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
HI Trevor...
Thanks for that. It is really fantastic what he has done, and it's more
of an ad for the 3D printing outfit than for Rogers.
And the guys on this list already are quite familiar with the brand, so
should be no issue.
Anyway, I wonder if it could be accomplished using a home printer setup?
Seems like printing in a bath would be a challenge;
maybe a laser beam is involved?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 2:09 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] 3d printed microwave antennas
Ok, this feels a bit like a Rogers ad but it's really cool tech and the
video includes some looks at some of the Rogers calibration fixtures.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
Trevor,
I have made 10 GHz 3D printed standard gain horns using a conventional
fused deposition modelling (FDM) printer. Material was ABS. After
printing, the ridges from the FDM process on each layer had to be smoothed
out. I used an epoxy coating designed for 3D prints. Used as a "pretty
maker" to smooth the prints plus a little sanding. Then applied a
conductive coating. At 10-GHz a silver conductive paint must be used, not
zinc. Of the three I made one passed specification on return loss and
gain. The quickest way to check the performance is to look at the Return
Loss by placing a metal plate directly on the end of the open horn. Return
loss should be near zero. If more than about a few DB something is wrong.
The two I made that did not pass we think was because the corners inside
the horn need to be sharp 90-degrees. Mine were rounded from using too
much of the epoxy coating. I never attempted to fix them.
Material used:
Silver conductive coating: MG Chemicals "Super Shield Silver Coated
Copper Conductive Coating"
3D epoxy coating: "XTC-3D High Performance 3D Print Coating"
Mike
W8RKO
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:21 PM TomH via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
wrote:
Yeah, could probably pay for it fairly quickly, although chasing the
technology improvements over time could be a risk factor
if not sufficiently funded or technically adept. Certainly cold be viable
for small volume runs.
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 3:08 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] Re: 3d printed microwave antennas
They do have all of the components including the 3D printer available on
their website. The printer page is password protected so I suspect you need
an NDA or something. They do list the price however, $185k with the Rogers
special sauce included. Not terribly more than the same model without the
Rogers system ($165k) so if you were a business looking to sell microwave
3d printing services, an RF contractor, etc. it's not a horrible cost of
ownership.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:03 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu wrote:
So I did a little looking. The inexpensive printer I was thinking of is a
bit more expensive now but still affordable and supposedly has decent
resolution and repeatability.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832735673766.html
You can buy the Rogers Radix resis. It's $1800 a liter so I don't expect
I'll be running this experiment any time soon.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 3:00 PM Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
wrote:
yea, it's typically stereo laser sintering (SLS) for this sort of thing
which uses UV cured resin with a UV laser. It flash cures the bottom
layer
of the print volume and pulls the print up and out. You can get very
inexpensive home SLS printers (a couple hundred dollars in some cases)
but
the resin is quite expensive. In this case, Rogers and the printer
company
have developed some sort of circulation system to keep the suspended
particulates evenly distributed in the liquid resin and that, along with
the exact makeup of that resin, are the secret sauce. I suspect the
printer
company just happens to have very customizable production level printers
since they seem to specialize in niche resins. I wouldn't be surprised
in
the printers are 50 to 100k as they are designed for volume production.
(that's assuming you could get one of those special Rogers circulators)
That said, you might be able to buy some of the resin and make small
prints are relatively low frequencies (they seem to support X band and S
band currently). You'd have to put it in a rotator for a few hours to
ensure it's homogeneous and add a little at a time as the object printed
and stick with a pretty small print that wouldn't take 10s of hours.
Sounds
like a good experiment for someone.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 2:43 PM TomH via mvus-list <
mvus-list@lists.febo.com> wrote:
HI Trevor...
Thanks for that. It is really fantastic what he has done, and it's more
of an ad for the 3D printing outfit than for Rogers.
And the guys on this list already are quite familiar with the brand, so
should be no issue.
Anyway, I wonder if it could be accomplished using a home printer
setup?
Seems like printing in a bath would be a challenge;
maybe a laser beam is involved?
Tom Holmes, N8ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Clarke via mvus-list mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2023 2:09 PM
To: Midwest VHF/UHF Society Mailing List mvus-list@lists.febo.com
Cc: Trevor Clarke retrev@csh.rit.edu
Subject: [mvus-list] 3d printed microwave antennas
Ok, this feels a bit like a Rogers ad but it's really cool tech and the
video includes some looks at some of the Rogers calibration fixtures.
Trevor R.H. Clarke
Computer Science House
Rochester Institute of Technology
retrev@csh.rit.edu
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~retrev/
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com
mvus-list mailing list -- mvus-list@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to mvus-list-leave@lists.febo.com