[time-nuts] 10811 crystal orientation

Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths at xtra.co.nz
Thu Jul 9 00:21:29 UTC 2009 

Bill

WB6BNQ wrote:
> Dear Bruce,
>
> I was trying to make a bit of humor, admittedly at your expense, playing on "time" and
> "nuts."  I would have included the "internet" smilelys, or whatever you call them, but
> I do not know them and would not know which to apply at the end of my sentences.  Such
> would have noted it was not an attack, which truly it was not.
>
>   
I've got a fairly thick skin, I often find some humour at my expense
amusing.
> You are not the only one who is cryptic with some of their responses.  You just happen
> to be the most prolific, on the surface, and the easiest, in this case, to poke fun at
> (so to speak).  As you so correctly point out, it really does require knowing the
> intended purposes and application for a circuit before deciding upon a selection of
> parts.
>
> I see you took my attempt at being a comedian in the wrong light, for that I apologize.
>   
I saw and appreciated the humour, but thought there might perhaps also
be a serious underlying question.
> 73....Bill....WB6BNQ
>
>
>   
Bruce

> Bruce Griffiths wrote:
>
>   
>> Bill
>>
>> In general, for frequencies of around 10MHz and below 2N3904's and
>> 2N3906's work well at least for collector currents < 40mA or so.
>> In some circuits these will even work well to around 100MHz albeit with
>> higher noise and distortion.
>> For higher frequencies faster transistors are usually advisable.
>>
>> The choice of comparator depends on what logic it is intended to drive.
>> With logic supplies as low as 1.8V for some FPGAs and CPLDs its
>> difficult to give a part that suits all applications.
>>
>> If in doubt ask (off line if you prefer) and I'll find a part (or parts)
>> that you can easily obtain that suits your particular application.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> WB6BNQ wrote:
>>     
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> I totally disagree !  The "crystal orientations" thread has been most
>>> informative, particularly with regard to the link showing the internals of the hp
>>> oscillator.  A short section of the "plumbing" was helpful, although it got a bit
>>> out of hand.
>>>
>>> I think the point of the "Timenuts" list is to provide a medium for discussion of
>>> topics that help people improve their efforts at achieving higher precision in
>>> all facets of time keeping.  All of the list members are not on the same level
>>> whether it is education, technical or even monetary ability.  Thus, many are here
>>> for learning and to prevent poor choices and expensive mistakes from others that
>>> have gone before them.
>>>
>>> If you want to complain about something, then jump on Bruce for never suggesting
>>> what "transistor/opamp/comparator" part number would be most appropriate for his
>>> circuits.  I go "nuts" time and time again over that small point because I do not
>>> have enough in-depth knowledge to fully make the appropriate choices.  Hmmmm,
>>> maybe that is why it is called "Timenuts" list ? A place for Bruce to drive you
>>> "nuts" time and time again.
>>>
>>> Who would have thought ?
>>>
>>> Bill....WB6BNQ
>>>
>>>
>>> The point being that
>>>
>>> Jim Palfreyman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Can you please follow John's instructions and stay on topic.
>>>>
>>>> All this new age pseudo-science talk of "crystal orientations" and "g
>>>> sensitivity" does not belong in this group.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> 2009/7/9 Robert Atkinson <robert8rpi at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Hi Antonio,
>>>>> Have a look at http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS-oven-journey.htm for
>>>>> internal pictures.
>>>>> The crystal element is a disc mounted parallel to the flat end of the can,
>>>>> see http://www.bliley.com/index_088.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert G8RPI.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 8/7/09, iovane at inwind.it <iovane at inwind.it> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> From: iovane at inwind.it <iovane at inwind.it>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 crystal orientation
>>>>>> To: "time-nuts" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 7:01 PM
>>>>>> Hi Chad,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the sketch you sent seems to indirectly answer my question,
>>>>>> as I could rely on the axis of minimum "g" sensitivity to
>>>>>> orient my three 10811 assemblies, but for my purpose it
>>>>>> seems that there is still a margin of ambiguity. I don't
>>>>>> take from the sketch how the crystal is actually fitted
>>>>>> (vertically?) into the case. As far as I know, "g"
>>>>>> sensitivity depends mainly on how the crystal "weights" on
>>>>>> its suspensions (contacts), and this is secondary for me.
>>>>>> So, I would be pleased to know how the crystal is actually
>>>>>> oriented, say regardless of the "g" sensitivity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> Antonio I8IOV
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> Hi Antonio,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please see the attached diagram from the 10811A
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> service manual.  Minimum and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> maximum G-sensitivity axes are shown.  Since the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> other variants of 10811 are
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> all internally constructed the same, I would not
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> expect a difference for the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> -60111.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Chad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM, iovane at inwind.it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> <iovane at inwind.it>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> does anybody out there know the orientation of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>> the crystal faces relative
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> to the outer case in a 10811-60111?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (The sense of the question is that we are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>> considering building a 3-axis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> apparatus for gravity-related tests. Note, based
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>> on our tentative
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> modelization, crystals are not requested to work
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>> as accelerometers).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>> Antonio I8IOV
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 
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