[time-nuts] 10811 crystal orientation

Thu Jul 9 00:49:01 UTC 2009

Hi Bruce,

Well, I am glad you are not mad at me.

As you know most humor is fact based and such is the case I made about the humor.  I really
do not have the in-depth knowledge that I should have when it comes to deciding which
"transistor/opamp/comparator" part would be best.  Particularly when the discussion starts
getting heavy in the finer art of noise and phase disturbances and such.

However, I never felt I could NOT approach you with such questions.  Hopefully, no one took
it otherwise.

Bill....WB6BNQ

Bruce Griffiths wrote:

> Bill
>
> WB6BNQ wrote:
> > Dear Bruce,
> >
> > I was trying to make a bit of humor, admittedly at your expense, playing on "time" and
> > "nuts."  I would have included the "internet" smilelys, or whatever you call them, but
> > I do not know them and would not know which to apply at the end of my sentences.  Such
> > would have noted it was not an attack, which truly it was not.
> >
> >
> I've got a fairly thick skin, I often find some humour at my expense
> amusing.
> > You are not the only one who is cryptic with some of their responses.  You just happen
> > to be the most prolific, on the surface, and the easiest, in this case, to poke fun at
> > (so to speak).  As you so correctly point out, it really does require knowing the
> > intended purposes and application for a circuit before deciding upon a selection of
> > parts.
> >
> > I see you took my attempt at being a comedian in the wrong light, for that I apologize.
> >
> I saw and appreciated the humour, but thought there might perhaps also
> be a serious underlying question.
> > 73....Bill....WB6BNQ
> >
> >
> >
> Bruce
>
> > Bruce Griffiths wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> In general, for frequencies of around 10MHz and below 2N3904's and
> >> 2N3906's work well at least for collector currents < 40mA or so.
> >> In some circuits these will even work well to around 100MHz albeit with
> >> higher noise and distortion.
> >> For higher frequencies faster transistors are usually advisable.
> >>
> >> The choice of comparator depends on what logic it is intended to drive.
> >> With logic supplies as low as 1.8V for some FPGAs and CPLDs its
> >> difficult to give a part that suits all applications.
> >>
> >> If in doubt ask (off line if you prefer) and I'll find a part (or parts)
> >> that you can easily obtain that suits your particular application.
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >> WB6BNQ wrote:
> >>
> >>> Jim,
> >>>
> >>> I totally disagree !  The "crystal orientations" thread has been most
> >>> informative, particularly with regard to the link showing the internals of the hp
> >>> oscillator.  A short section of the "plumbing" was helpful, although it got a bit
> >>> out of hand.
> >>>
> >>> I think the point of the "Timenuts" list is to provide a medium for discussion of
> >>> topics that help people improve their efforts at achieving higher precision in
> >>> all facets of time keeping.  All of the list members are not on the same level
> >>> whether it is education, technical or even monetary ability.  Thus, many are here
> >>> for learning and to prevent poor choices and expensive mistakes from others that
> >>> have gone before them.
> >>>
> >>> If you want to complain about something, then jump on Bruce for never suggesting
> >>> what "transistor/opamp/comparator" part number would be most appropriate for his
> >>> circuits.  I go "nuts" time and time again over that small point because I do not
> >>> have enough in-depth knowledge to fully make the appropriate choices.  Hmmmm,
> >>> maybe that is why it is called "Timenuts" list ? A place for Bruce to drive you
> >>> "nuts" time and time again.
> >>>
> >>> Who would have thought ?
> >>>
> >>> Bill....WB6BNQ
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The point being that
> >>>
> >>> Jim Palfreyman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> All,
> >>>>
> >>>> Can you please follow John's instructions and stay on topic.
> >>>>
> >>>> All this new age pseudo-science talk of "crystal orientations" and "g
> >>>> sensitivity" does not belong in this group.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim
> >>>>
> >>>> 2009/7/9 Robert Atkinson <robert8rpi at yahoo.co.uk>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Antonio,
> >>>>> Have a look at http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS-oven-journey.htm for
> >>>>> internal pictures.
> >>>>> The crystal element is a disc mounted parallel to the flat end of the can,
> >>>>> see http://www.bliley.com/index_088.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Robert G8RPI.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- On Wed, 8/7/09, iovane at inwind.it <iovane at inwind.it> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: iovane at inwind.it <iovane at inwind.it>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 crystal orientation
> >>>>>> To: "time-nuts" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 7:01 PM
> >>>>>> Hi Chad,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> the sketch you sent seems to indirectly answer my question,
> >>>>>> as I could rely on the axis of minimum "g" sensitivity to
> >>>>>> orient my three 10811 assemblies, but for my purpose it
> >>>>>> seems that there is still a margin of ambiguity. I don't
> >>>>>> take from the sketch how the crystal is actually fitted
> >>>>>> (vertically?) into the case. As far as I know, "g"
> >>>>>> sensitivity depends mainly on how the crystal "weights" on
> >>>>>> its suspensions (contacts), and this is secondary for me.
> >>>>>> So, I would be pleased to know how the crystal is actually
> >>>>>> oriented, say regardless of the "g" sensitivity.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>> Antonio I8IOV
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Antonio,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Please see the attached diagram from the 10811A
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> service manual.  Minimum and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> maximum G-sensitivity axes are shown.  Since the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> other variants of 10811 are
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> all internally constructed the same, I would not
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> expect a difference for the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -60111.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Chad.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:27 AM, iovane at inwind.it
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> <iovane at inwind.it>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dear all,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> does anybody out there know the orientation of
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> the crystal faces relative
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> to the outer case in a 10811-60111?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (The sense of the question is that we are
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> considering building a 3-axis
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> apparatus for gravity-related tests. Note, based
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> on our tentative
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> modelization, crystals are not requested to work
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> as accelerometers).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Antonio I8IOV
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>>>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.