[time-nuts] Hahl Pneumatic and Self Winding Clocks

MITCHELL JANOFF majanoff at verizon.net
Sat Mar 14 12:21:06 EDT 2009


I'm in the process of connecting my Hahl clock to a GPS based standard. I've tested quite a few ideas for the Hahl clock and I found that what works best is the small "squeaker" from a dog toy. By compressing the squeaker on the odd minutes and releasing pressure on the even minutes, the slave clocks works fine. I'm using a Parallax BS2 stamp microprocessor to read the time from a small GPS based unit (just a GPS card with power and antenna that I got from ebay). I use the Parallax to read the time from the GPS card, and then on even minutes I push the squeaker closed (solenoid) forcing the air into the slave clock. On even minutes I retract the solenoid releasing the pressure, which causes the slave to advance another minute and the squeaker to refill with air. I have everything working except the solenoid (or stepper motor). I'll post pictures when I have this finished. I also may add two additonal slaves to this system, and at that point  I don't
 believe the volume of air produced by the sqeaker will continue to work, so maybe the samething with some bellows.

I'm currently using a similar system for synchronizing Self Winding of New York Western Union clocks. I use both a WWVB based clock (the clock from UltraLink (www.ULIO.com) and as a backup a GPS based time standard. A Parallax BS2 reads the time and at 59:57 past every hour, pulses about 20 clocks in my house. I run the clocks in groups of 3 or 4 (in series) and then the entire clock system in parallel, so I can pulse all the clocks from a 12v car battery. The system has worked very well for several years now. The pulse is 2 seconds in length so the clocks are released at 59:59 past the hour. It takes about 1 second for the solenoids to completely release.

Mitch.
kC2MFB




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Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:00:01 AM
Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 16

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: GPS disciplined mechanical clocks (Steve Rooke)
  2. Re: GPS disciplined mechanical clocks (Neville Michie)
  3. Re: GPS antenna installation problem (Dave Brown)
  4. Re: GPS disciplined mechanical clocks (arie schellaars)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 20:17:14 +1300
From: Steve Rooke <sar10538 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined mechanical clocks
To: Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com>,     Discussion of precise time and
    frequency measurement <time-nuts at febo.com>
Message-ID:
    <1231b6a80903042317u7c80f7fh4850b6437af611ca at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

2009/3/5 Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com>:
>> In the evolution of timekeepers the SHORTT CLOCK was one of the great
>> milestones.
> ...
>> These clock kept very good time.
>> Cheers, Neville Michie
>
> Yes, stability at 1 day was right around 1e-8 for a Shortt.
>
> Stability (ADEV) of one Shortt pendulum clock:
> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/shortt/
>
> For more details on Shortt and ADEV see:
> http://www.leapsecond.com/hsn2006/ch2.pdf

This is great stuff. Thanks Tom.

73, Steve
-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD & JAKDTTNW
Omnium finis imminet



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:35:34 +1100
From: Neville Michie <namichie at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined mechanical clocks
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
    <time-nuts at febo.com>
Message-ID: <700EE3E5-A812-4268-8250-BFC21F5E29C1 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Hi Jim,
a "seconds Pendulum" has  frequency of 0.5Hz, and so your subwoofer  
would need 0.5 hz response if it is going to shake walls.
Being a purist I must point out that at 0.5 Hz the sound energy would  
be in the form of pressure which is very weakly coupled to a pendulum.
The only coupling would be buoyancy, and that would need a 1Hz signal  
to give two reductions in apparent gravity per cycle.

Allied to this discussion is the Loomis effect, discovered by the  
American millionaire who had three Shortt clocks running in his  
basement.
They synchronised unless aligned at 120 degrees to each other. I  
wonder weather they were shaking the bedrock, or maybe the gravitational
attraction between the 10 kg pendulums may have synchronised them.  
(See "Tuxedo Park" by Jennet Conant) He qualified as the first time nut.

cheers, Neville Michie


On 05/03/2009, at 5:22 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:

> So if I set my GPS locked 3325B to 1Hz (sine wave) and put that  
> into my M&K
> subwoofer and sat that next to my pendulum clock (with its ~1m long  
> Reifler
> pendulum) it should keep perfect time.
>
> Beauty!
>
>
>
> 2009/3/5 Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com>
>
>>> mechanical, more of a hybrid, but I don't know how you'd  
>>> discipline a
>>> mechanical clock with a system that had to drive in parallel with  
>>> the
>> escape
>>> mechanism, the two would fight each other.
>>
>> Eric,
>>
>> Precision pendulum clocks, when mounted near each other,
>> have been known to eventually get into phase lock. So one
>> idea is to add a GPS 1PPS driven bass speaker or solenoid
>> or some sort of thumping contraption. Perhaps eventually the
>> pendulum clock would lock to the vibrations on the the wall.
>>
>> /tvb
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:48:14 +1300
From: "Dave Brown" <tractorb at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
    <time-nuts at febo.com>
Message-ID: <06a701c99d7f$e37828c0$7900a8c0 at athlon1200>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

For all those out there who don't have your own BPO 36 master clock, 
here is a youtube video that shows the detail of the Hipp toggle in 
action. The Hipp is the key to these clocks excellent time keeping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmx5iy4qwhI

Yes I know, the sound track IS horrible! But you can hear most of the 
ticks... Not my video, I hasten to add..

For more info on the Hipp toggle,  just google and all will be 
revealed.

DaveB, NZ


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Neville Michie" <namichie at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
<time-nuts at febo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem


> Another, maybe the original tape, was called 100 Miles per Hour Tape
> and was sold years after fabric
> covered aircraft wings went out of style as it was so universally
> useful.
> As the name suggests it was rated for repair of aircraft fabric to 
> be
> used up to speeds of 100 MPH.
> cheers, Neville Michie
>
> PS. I have a type 36 post office clock running and it has a
> synchronising relay that forces the phase
> of the 30 second output pulses to the nearest 2 seconds, by rotating
> the count wheel which has a cardioid cam.
> At a fixed time every day this relay was energised from the central
> site to correct any phase creep in the
> clocks in the regional post offices. I have occasionally thought of
> linking it to a GPS time source.
> cheers, NM




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 03:37:21 -0800 (PST)
From: arie schellaars <arie.schellaars at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined mechanical clocks
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
    <time-nuts at febo.com>
Message-ID: <816822.45749.qm at web46416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Just to put in my twopenny worth;
In the current (March) issue of OZ electronics magazine "Silicon Chip"
is a project to lock a cheap battery operated clock to a GPS derived signal..
Uses a Jupitor type GPS head unit to receive the Sat"s signals.
Cheers 
Arie Schellaars??? VK3DBF

--- On Thu, 5/3/09, Neville Michie <namichie at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Neville Michie <namichie at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined mechanical clocks
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts at febo.com>
Received: Thursday, 5 March, 2009, 8:35 AM


Hi Jim,
a "seconds Pendulum" has? frequency of 0.5Hz, and so your subwoofer? 
would need 0.5 hz response if it is going to shake walls.
Being a purist I must point out that at 0.5 Hz the sound energy would? 
be in the form of pressure which is very weakly coupled to a pendulum.
The only coupling would be buoyancy, and that would need a 1Hz signal? 
to give two reductions in apparent gravity per cycle.

Allied to this discussion is the Loomis effect, discovered by the? 
American millionaire who had three Shortt clocks running in his? 
basement.
They synchronised unless aligned at 120 degrees to each other. I? 
wonder weather they were shaking the bedrock, or maybe the gravitational
attraction between the 10 kg pendulums may have synchronised them.? 
(See "Tuxedo Park" by Jennet Conant) He qualified as the first time nut.

cheers, Neville Michie


On 05/03/2009, at 5:22 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:

> So if I set my GPS locked 3325B to 1Hz (sine wave) and put that? 
> into my M&K
> subwoofer and sat that next to my pendulum clock (with its ~1m long? 
> Reifler
> pendulum) it should keep perfect time.
>
> Beauty!
>
>
>
> 2009/3/5 Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com>
>
>>> mechanical, more of a hybrid, but I don't know how you'd? 
>>> discipline a
>>> mechanical clock with a system that had to drive in parallel with? 
>>> the
>> escape
>>> mechanism, the two would fight each other.
>>
>> Eric,
>>
>> Precision pendulum clocks, when mounted near each other,
>> have been known to eventually get into phase lock. So one
>> idea is to add a GPS 1PPS driven bass speaker or solenoid
>> or some sort of thumping contraption. Perhaps eventually the
>> pendulum clock would lock to the vibrations on the the wall.
>>
>> /tvb
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ 
> time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.


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