[time-nuts] Hahl Pneumatic and Self Winding Clocks

WB6BNQ wb6bnq at cox.net
Sat Mar 14 19:22:24 UTC 2009


Hi Mitch,

Sounds like you need a bigger dog ! (hi hi)

73....Bill....WB6BNQ

MITCHELL JANOFF wrote:

> I'm in the process of connecting my Hahl clock to a GPS based standard. I've tested quite a few ideas for the Hahl clock and I found that what works best is the small "squeaker" from a dog toy. By compressing the squeaker on the odd minutes and releasing pressure on the even minutes, the slave clocks works fine. I'm using a Parallax BS2 stamp microprocessor to read the time from a small GPS based unit (just a GPS card with power and antenna that I got from ebay). I use the Parallax to read the time from the GPS card, and then on even minutes I push the squeaker closed (solenoid) forcing the air into the slave clock. On even minutes I retract the solenoid releasing the pressure, which causes the slave to advance another minute and the squeaker to refill with air. I have everything working except the solenoid (or stepper motor). I'll post pictures when I have this finished. I also may add two additonal slaves to this system, and at that point  I don't
>  believe the volume of air produced by the sqeaker will continue to work, so maybe the samething with some bellows.
>
> I'm currently using a similar system for synchronizing Self Winding of New York Western Union clocks. I use both a WWVB based clock (the clock from UltraLink (www.ULIO.com) and as a backup a GPS based time standard. A Parallax BS2 reads the time and at 59:57 past every hour, pulses about 20 clocks in my house. I run the clocks in groups of 3 or 4 (in series) and then the entire clock system in parallel, so I can pulse all the clocks from a 12v car battery. The system has worked very well for several years now. The pulse is 2 seconds in length so the clocks are released at 59:59 past the hour. It takes about 1 second for the solenoids to completely release.
>
> Mitch.
> kC2MFB
>
> ________________________________
> From: "time-nuts-request at febo.com" <time-nuts-request at febo.com>
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 7:00:01 AM
> Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 56, Issue 16
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: GPS disciplined mechanical clocks (Steve Rooke)
>   2. Re: GPS disciplined mechanical clocks (Neville Michie)
>   3. Re: GPS antenna installation problem (Dave Brown)
>   4. Re: GPS disciplined mechanical clocks (arie schellaars)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 20:17:14 +1300
> From: Steve Rooke <sar10538 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined mechanical clocks
> To: Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com>,     Discussion of precise time and
>     frequency measurement <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID:
>     <1231b6a80903042317u7c80f7fh4850b6437af611ca at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> 2009/3/5 Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com>:
> >> In the evolution of timekeepers the SHORTT CLOCK was one of the great
> >> milestones.
> > ...
> >> These clock kept very good time.
> >> Cheers, Neville Michie
> >
> > Yes, stability at 1 day was right around 1e-8 for a Shortt.
> >
> > Stability (ADEV) of one Shortt pendulum clock:
> > http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/shortt/
> >
> > For more details on Shortt and ADEV see:
> > http://www.leapsecond.com/hsn2006/ch2.pdf
>
> This is great stuff. Thanks Tom.
>
> 73, Steve
> --
> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD & JAKDTTNW
> Omnium finis imminet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:35:34 +1100

> From: Neville Michie <namichie at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined mechanical clocks
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>     <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <700EE3E5-A812-4268-8250-BFC21F5E29C1 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Hi Jim,
> a "seconds Pendulum" has  frequency of 0.5Hz, and so your subwoofer
> would need 0.5 hz response if it is going to shake walls.
> Being a purist I must point out that at 0.5 Hz the sound energy would
> be in the form of pressure which is very weakly coupled to a pendulum.
> The only coupling would be buoyancy, and that would need a 1Hz signal
> to give two reductions in apparent gravity per cycle.
>
> Allied to this discussion is the Loomis effect, discovered by the
> American millionaire who had three Shortt clocks running in his
> basement.
> They synchronised unless aligned at 120 degrees to each other. I
> wonder weather they were shaking the bedrock, or maybe the gravitational
> attraction between the 10 kg pendulums may have synchronised them.
> (See "Tuxedo Park" by Jennet Conant) He qualified as the first time nut.
>
> cheers, Neville Michie
>
> On 05/03/2009, at 5:22 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:
>
> > So if I set my GPS locked 3325B to 1Hz (sine wave) and put that
> > into my M&K
> > subwoofer and sat that next to my pendulum clock (with its ~1m long
> > Reifler
> > pendulum) it should keep perfect time.
> >
> > Beauty!
> >
> >
> >
> > 2009/3/5 Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com>
> >
> >>> mechanical, more of a hybrid, but I don't know how you'd
> >>> discipline a
> >>> mechanical clock with a system that had to drive in parallel with
> >>> the
> >> escape
> >>> mechanism, the two would fight each other.
> >>
> >> Eric,
> >>
> >> Precision pendulum clocks, when mounted near each other,
> >> have been known to eventually get into phase lock. So one
> >> idea is to add a GPS 1PPS driven bass speaker or solenoid
> >> or some sort of thumping contraption. Perhaps eventually the
> >> pendulum clock would lock to the vibrations on the the wall.
> >>
> >> /tvb
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/
> > time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:48:14 +1300
> From: "Dave Brown" <tractorb at ihug.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>     <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <06a701c99d7f$e37828c0$7900a8c0 at athlon1200>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>     reply-type=original
>
> For all those out there who don't have your own BPO 36 master clock,
> here is a youtube video that shows the detail of the Hipp toggle in
> action. The Hipp is the key to these clocks excellent time keeping.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmx5iy4qwhI
>
> Yes I know, the sound track IS horrible! But you can hear most of the
> ticks... Not my video, I hasten to add..
>
> For more info on the Hipp toggle,  just google and all will be
> revealed.
>
> DaveB, NZ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neville Michie" <namichie at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
>
> > Another, maybe the original tape, was called 100 Miles per Hour Tape
> > and was sold years after fabric
> > covered aircraft wings went out of style as it was so universally
> > useful.
> > As the name suggests it was rated for repair of aircraft fabric to
> > be
> > used up to speeds of 100 MPH.
> > cheers, Neville Michie
> >
> > PS. I have a type 36 post office clock running and it has a
> > synchronising relay that forces the phase
> > of the 30 second output pulses to the nearest 2 seconds, by rotating
> > the count wheel which has a cardioid cam.
> > At a fixed time every day this relay was energised from the central
> > site to correct any phase creep in the
> > clocks in the regional post offices. I have occasionally thought of
> > linking it to a GPS time source.
> > cheers, NM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 03:37:21 -0800 (PST)
> From: arie schellaars <arie.schellaars at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined mechanical clocks
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>     <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <816822.45749.qm at web46416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Just to put in my twopenny worth;
> In the current (March) issue of OZ electronics magazine "Silicon Chip"
> is a project to lock a cheap battery operated clock to a GPS derived signal..
> Uses a Jupitor type GPS head unit to receive the Sat"s signals.
> Cheers
> Arie Schellaars??? VK3DBF
>
> --- On Thu, 5/3/09, Neville Michie <namichie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Neville Michie <namichie at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS disciplined mechanical clocks
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Received: Thursday, 5 March, 2009, 8:35 AM
>
> Hi Jim,
> a "seconds Pendulum" has? frequency of 0.5Hz, and so your subwoofer?
> would need 0.5 hz response if it is going to shake walls.
> Being a purist I must point out that at 0.5 Hz the sound energy would?
> be in the form of pressure which is very weakly coupled to a pendulum.
> The only coupling would be buoyancy, and that would need a 1Hz signal?
> to give two reductions in apparent gravity per cycle.
>
> Allied to this discussion is the Loomis effect, discovered by the?
> American millionaire who had three Shortt clocks running in his?
> basement.
> They synchronised unless aligned at 120 degrees to each other. I?
> wonder weather they were shaking the bedrock, or maybe the gravitational
> attraction between the 10 kg pendulums may have synchronised them.?
> (See "Tuxedo Park" by Jennet Conant) He qualified as the first time nut.
>
> cheers, Neville Michie
>
> On 05/03/2009, at 5:22 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:
>
> > So if I set my GPS locked 3325B to 1Hz (sine wave) and put that?
> > into my M&K
> > subwoofer and sat that next to my pendulum clock (with its ~1m long?
> > Reifler
> > pendulum) it should keep perfect time.
> >
> > Beauty!
> >
> >
> >
> > 2009/3/5 Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com>
> >
> >>> mechanical, more of a hybrid, but I don't know how you'd?
> >>> discipline a
> >>> mechanical clock with a system that had to drive in parallel with?
> >>> the
> >> escape
> >>> mechanism, the two would fight each other.
> >>
> >> Eric,
> >>
> >> Precision pendulum clocks, when mounted near each other,
> >> have been known to eventually get into phase lock. So one
> >> idea is to add a GPS 1PPS driven bass speaker or solenoid
> >> or some sort of thumping contraption. Perhaps eventually the
> >> pendulum clock would lock to the vibrations on the the wall.
> >>
> >> /tvb
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/
> > time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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