[time-nuts] Yukon Energy causes time sync problems
brooke at pacific.net
Sat Apr 10 11:59:22 EDT 2010
So line powered wall clocks keep the correct time.
Eric Garner wrote:
> My question is why is it done that way at all? It seems impractical in
> the extreme. Why not use a meter? Or the afore mentioned vibrating reeds?
> What happens when the clock rates sync up again, since the wall clock
> time will still be ahead/behind the sat clock? Do they reset the wall
> clock? Or is it only the rate that matters?
> Given the sophistication of the rest of the network there must be a
> Sent from my Banana Jr. mobile device
> On Apr 8, 2010, at 3:48 PM, "Bill Hawkins" <bill at iaxs.net> wrote:
>> There are some interesting misconceptions here.
>> Yukon Power did not cause time to slow down. They did what every
>> station does, which is to adjust drive power to make a synchronous power
>> clock match a precision reference clock. The tolerance is seconds
>> means for controlling drive power has a time constant of several
>> The real problem is the way demand varies. If you pour mechanical
>> power into
>> a generator, it will speed up when lightly loaded or slow down when
>> loaded. This is less of a problem when many generators are tied
>> together by
>> a power grid, as they are all synchronous machines. Central dispatching
>> stations compare line and reference clocks, and direct plants with
>> to do so to make up lost cycles, or buy less from the most expensive
>> when extra cycles are generated.
>> If you have a 5 digit counter (or more) tied to a computer, you can
>> plot the
>> deviation of line frequency for 24 hour intervals. TVB had this on
>> his site.
>> What I saw in MN was that generators speeded up in the early morning
>> to make
>> up cycles so there was no reference error at 6 AM. Then the loads
>> turned on
>> and the cycles fell behind and recovered as power was dispatched,
>> within +/-
>> 6 seconds. This is good enough for social time, where the mundanes don't
>> about time-nuts.
>> The Alaskan network is probably too sparse for central direction, so
>> power plant makes its own adjustments. Note that this doesn't
>> produce stable control, ever.
>> In this case, the reference clock appears to refer to GPS satellite
>> uses a standard wall clock to display it. It is the reference clock that
>> slowed down when it should have failed to work at all. Perhaps the wall
>> (maybe it was really a HP 113) needed oil. There's the real question for
>> nuts: How did the reference clock slow down?
>> The first comment to the article shows what happens when your ego
>> fails to
>> shame you into silence when you don't know what you're talking about:
>> "I don't understand how the amount being generated has anything to do
>> what happens to household electronics." [see above]
>> "It would make more sense if the plant was generating at 55Hz versus
>> as some electronics will use the line frequency rather than integrated
>> oscillators to set clocks." [The plant probably has breakers that
>> take it
>> off line when the frequency gets below 58 cycles, to keep it from
>> the network down.] [I thought that all electronics today converted
>> the line
>> to DC without sampling it, and ran timing from a crystal. Anyone know?]
>> "Regardless, it shows YEC continues to be a bunch of bumbling oafs."
>> who live in glass houses shouldn't stow thrones, or something like
>> Thanks, Brooke. I had some fun explaining all this.
>> Bill Hawkins
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brooke Clarke
>> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:58 PM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Yukon Energy causes time sync problems
>> Have Fun,
>> Brooke Clarke
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