[time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 69, Issue 63

Dick Moore richiem at hughes.net
Mon Apr 26 15:34:38 EDT 2010


Thx for the feedback, Stan. I'll add a "last update" date and time at the top. I'll only use eBay for the stuff that you guys don't want.

Dick Moore


On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:12 AM, time-nuts-request at febo.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Closing the lab -- gear for sale (Stan, W1LE)
>   2. Which voltage regulator chips offer good performance...?
>      (Michael Baker)
>   3. Re: Closing the lab -- gear for sale (J. Forster)
>   4. Re: Thunderbolt Power Supply Question (Ed Palmer)
>   5. Thunderbolt Power Supply Question (Arthur Dent)
>   6. Re: Which voltage regulator chips offer good	performance...?
>      (Bob Camp)
>   7. Re: Thunderbolt Power Supply Question (Bob Camp)
>   8. Re: Thunderbolt Power Supply Question (Ed Palmer)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 09:45:21 -0400
> From: "Stan, W1LE" <stanw1le at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Closing the lab -- gear for sale
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <4BD598F1.1000707 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hello Dick,
> 
> Your bidding system is workable.
> 
> I like the web page with the listing and highest bid.
> 
> Please time/date stamp the highest bid, so we know the dynamic.
> Please advise when the bidding for each item is to close.
> 
> Please send a reminder, with the web site, for a "every 2 day" update.
> 
> I like this better than Ebay.. NO f***ing snipers are allowed. !!!
> 
> I like your philosophy of getting the stuff into "hands" that will 
> appreciate and use it.
> 
> Whenever I do a ham estate sale, My #1 objective is to get someone who
>  is interested in it and will move it off the property.
> Many ham radio estates end up in the land fill.
> 
> Stan, W1LE      Cape Cod      FN41sr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/26/2010 12:37 AM, Dick Moore wrote:
>> Dear time-nuts:
>> I'm shutting down my shop-lab and want to sell my equipment. I've got some interesting stuff you can see at:
>> www.moorepage.net/Testequip.html
>> 
>> As the web page notes, I'll take bids and update them, and when interest runs out on something, high bidder gets it.
>> 
>> Thanks for all your past help; good luck...
>> 
>> Dick Moore
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:01:40 -0400
> From: Michael Baker <mpb45 at clanbaker.org>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Which voltage regulator chips offer good
> 	performance...?
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Message-ID: <4BD5AAD4.3090707 at clanbaker.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hello, Time-Nutters--
> 
> Bob Camp said:
> 
>> snip
>> ...stability is not the only issue.
>> Crud on the power supply is an issue as well.
>> Some of the ultra low drop out regulators
>> are not real good crud blockers.
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> So... This would seem to bring up the question
> of which 3-terminal regulators ARE good (if not
> "good" then which are the "best"?) providing both
> stability -AND- clean, crud free output? 
> 
> How about old standby regulators such as
> the 723?  Problem there is that the stand-alone
> chip is only good for really low current.
> 
> For years I have been using general purpose
> 3-terminal regulators sometimes with carefully
> selected low impedance capacitance on the output.
> 
> In some cases I have found that a high-gain
> transistor in the output configured as a
> "capacitance multiplier" serves to handle
> current load spikes but is only a nominal help
> in cleaning up crud on the output.
> 
> Comments?  Suggestions? 
> 
> Mike Baker
> -------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 08:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quik.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Closing the lab -- gear for sale
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <61185.12.6.201.2.1272296471.squirrel at popaccts.quikus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> He should also post the notice to:
> 
> TestEquipTrader at YahooGroups.com
> 
> -John
> 
> ===================
> 
> 
>> Hello Dick,
>> 
>> Your bidding system is workable.
>> 
>> I like the web page with the listing and highest bid.
>> 
>> Please time/date stamp the highest bid, so we know the dynamic.
>> Please advise when the bidding for each item is to close.
>> 
>> Please send a reminder, with the web site, for a "every 2 day" update.
>> 
>> I like this better than Ebay.. NO f***ing snipers are allowed. !!!
>> 
>> I like your philosophy of getting the stuff into "hands" that will
>> appreciate and use it.
>> 
>> Whenever I do a ham estate sale, My #1 objective is to get someone who
>>  is interested in it and will move it off the property.
>> Many ham radio estates end up in the land fill.
>> 
>> Stan, W1LE      Cape Cod      FN41sr
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/26/2010 12:37 AM, Dick Moore wrote:
>>> Dear time-nuts:
>>> I'm shutting down my shop-lab and want to sell my equipment. I've got
>>> some interesting stuff you can see at:
>>> www.moorepage.net/Testequip.html
>>> 
>>> As the web page notes, I'll take bids and update them, and when interest
>>> runs out on something, high bidder gets it.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for all your past help; good luck...
>>> 
>>> Dick Moore
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 09:49:54 -0600
> From: Ed Palmer <ed_palmer at sasktel.net>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <4BD5B622.40805 at sasktel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Yes, I've read that page a couple of times, but it doesn't say whether 
> the Ault, Meanwell, or Acopian power supplies have a 'regulated' or a 
> 'close enough' +12 supply.  I think that the two variable power supplies 
> would be well regulated.  I can pretty well guarantee that the ATX power 
> supply has a 'close enough' 12V supply.  But the two variable supplies 
> are most likely linear while the others are switchers.  This muddies the 
> question of 'regulated' vs. 'close enough' with the idea of 'switching 
> supply' vs. 'linear supply'.
> 
> Ed
> 
> paul at greenrover.demon.co.uk wrote:
>> On 26/04/2010 09:02, Ed Palmer wrote:
>> 
>>> In the Thunderbolt the +12 runs the oscillator. Won't an unregulated,
>>> but relatively steady, +12 supply degrade the performance of the
>>> oscillator or does the Tbolt have a built-in regulator to deal with 
>>> this?
>> 
>> There is some interesting reading on this here:
>> 
>> http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/noise.htm
>> 
>> HTH
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 09:36:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Arthur Dent <golgarfrincham at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Message-ID: <189083.91999.qm at web55801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> The +12VDC supply (internal to the sealed oscillator) supplies both the oven and the oscillator circuits. I think you'll find that internally this +12VDC goes to the heater circuit as well as through a regulator to the oscillator which is running on something like +7VDC. This is speculation at this point but a number of similar type oscillators I've checked are set up this way and even have a temperature compensated regulated reference voltage out of about +7VDC to feed a pot or EFC circuit. For instance the HP 10811 has an internal +5.7VDC regulated supply for the oscillator circuit
> 
> One crude way to check is to take a removed 10Mhz oscillator Trimble oscillator and power it from a bench supply at +12 and let it stabilize. Then reduce the supply voltage slowly and see where the output level and/or frequency start to change. If you see no change until you've reduced the voltage a few volts then the oscillator has an
> internal regulator for the oscillator circuit.? ? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:51:34 -0400
> From: "Bob Camp" <lists at rtty.us>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Which voltage regulator chips offer good
> 	performance...?
> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <D4617C662B35444B9A81191352546766 at vectron.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi
> 
> Two examples:
> 
> Linear LT1764 ($4 to $8 depending on qty):
> 
> Low drop out, low self generated noise, lots of power, lots of current.
> Needs help past ~ 8 KHz for crud rejection. 
> 
> Linear LT1963 ($3 to $5 depending on qty):
> 
> Better crud rejection, higher dropout, lower power, lower current. Needs
> help past ~ 100 KHz. 
> 
> Both are adjustable parts. You can tailor them to match the supply you have.
> 
> My preference is the first part with a nice coil (or better two) in front of
> it. There are a lot of parts designed for switchers that will do a fine job.
> Since the regulator needs at least 10 uF in front of it, the coil(s) can be
> in <= 2 mHy and do fine. I get my coils on the e place so I can't recommend
> a specific part. You can also do just fine ripping them out of dead
> switching supplies. 
> 
> One thing you could do if cost is no object - cascade several of the parts
> with a bit under a volt across each one. +15 volts to +12 volts with three
> stages of isolation. Provided ground loops don't get you, there won't be
> much line related stuff at the output of that cascade.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baker
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 11:02 AM
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Which voltage regulator chips offer good
> performance...?
> 
> Hello, Time-Nutters--
> 
> Bob Camp said:
> 
>> snip
>> ...stability is not the only issue.
>> Crud on the power supply is an issue as well.
>> Some of the ultra low drop out regulators
>> are not real good crud blockers.
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> So... This would seem to bring up the question
> of which 3-terminal regulators ARE good (if not
> "good" then which are the "best"?) providing both
> stability -AND- clean, crud free output? 
> 
> How about old standby regulators such as
> the 723?  Problem there is that the stand-alone
> chip is only good for really low current.
> 
> For years I have been using general purpose
> 3-terminal regulators sometimes with carefully
> selected low impedance capacitance on the output.
> 
> In some cases I have found that a high-gain
> transistor in the output configured as a
> "capacitance multiplier" serves to handle
> current load spikes but is only a nominal help
> in cleaning up crud on the output.
> 
> Comments?  Suggestions? 
> 
> Mike Baker
> -------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 13:00:09 -0400
> From: "Bob Camp" <lists at rtty.us>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question
> To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <8CDFFF0FA7BD4C07A524D10A2B81D4CA at vectron.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi
> 
> I'd say those are all pretty safe guesses with any modern OCXO. The drop out
> on the internal regulator is likely to be well below anything we would put
> on the +12 supply. 
> 
> The Trimble spec on the TBolt shows a +/- 10% tolerance on the +12V supply.
>> From that I'd assume you could run the unit pretty much forever at 10.800
> volts on the input. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Arthur Dent
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:36 PM
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question
> 
> The +12VDC supply (internal to the sealed oscillator) supplies both the oven
> and the oscillator circuits. I think you'll find that internally this +12VDC
> goes to the heater circuit as well as through a regulator to the oscillator
> which is running on something like +7VDC. This is speculation at this point
> but a number of similar type oscillators I've checked are set up this way
> and even have a temperature compensated regulated reference voltage out of
> about +7VDC to feed a pot or EFC circuit. For instance the HP 10811 has an
> internal +5.7VDC regulated supply for the oscillator circuit
> 
> One crude way to check is to take a removed 10Mhz oscillator Trimble
> oscillator and power it from a bench supply at +12 and let it stabilize.
> Then reduce the supply voltage slowly and see where the output level and/or
> frequency start to change. If you see no change until you've reduced the
> voltage a few volts then the oscillator has an
> internal regulator for the oscillator circuit.? ? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:11:59 -0600
> From: Ed Palmer <ed_palmer at sasktel.net>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <4BD5D76F.6010401 at sasktel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> Where did you find that 10% spec?  I looked in the Tbolt book and the 
> data sheet but didn't see it.
> 
> Ed
> 
> Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I'd say those are all pretty safe guesses with any modern OCXO. The drop out
>> on the internal regulator is likely to be well below anything we would put
>> on the +12 supply. 
>> 
>> The Trimble spec on the TBolt shows a +/- 10% tolerance on the +12V supply.
>> From that I'd assume you could run the unit pretty much forever at 10.800
>> volts on the input. 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
>> Behalf Of Arthur Dent
>> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:36 PM
>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Power Supply Question
>> 
>> The +12VDC supply (internal to the sealed oscillator) supplies both the oven
>> and the oscillator circuits. I think you'll find that internally this +12VDC
>> goes to the heater circuit as well as through a regulator to the oscillator
>> which is running on something like +7VDC. This is speculation at this point
>> but a number of similar type oscillators I've checked are set up this way
>> and even have a temperature compensated regulated reference voltage out of
>> about +7VDC to feed a pot or EFC circuit. For instance the HP 10811 has an
>> internal +5.7VDC regulated supply for the oscillator circuit
>> 
>> One crude way to check is to take a removed 10Mhz oscillator Trimble
>> oscillator and power it from a bench supply at +12 and let it stabilize.
>> Then reduce the supply voltage slowly and see where the output level and/or
>> frequency start to change. If you see no change until you've reduced the
>> voltage a few volts then the oscillator has an
>> internal regulator for the oscillator circuit.    
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts at febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> 
> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 69, Issue 63
> *****************************************





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