[time-nuts] Non electrical time-nuttery

[Lux, Jim (337C)]

Sunlight?  You have a clock driven heliostat generate a fixed beam of light.
Sure, your sync mechanism only works half the day (half the "clear" days)...

There's a whole literature on regulating light intensity of flames, dating
back to Faraday, if not earlier.


On 1/9/10 6:13 PM, "Bob Camp" <lists at cq.nu> wrote:

> Hi
> 
> It's probably independent of the light as long as you have a linear spring. My
> concern is that you likely do not have a completely linear spring.
> 
> Since by definition you can't use an electric light, some kind of gas light
> would be an option. I suspect that if you regulate pressure you could keep the
> light pretty constant.  Dry gas for both the fuel and oxidizer would take out
> the humidity issue.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Jan 9, 2010, at 8:39 PM, J. Forster wrote:
> 
>> No, I don't think so.
>> 
>> The period of a pendulum is independent of the amplitude of the swing to
>> first order, at least. I think the same applies to a torsional pendulum.
>> Maybe moreso if the fiber is a linear torsional spring.
>> 
>> -John
>> 
>> =================
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> All you would still need is a way to regulate the light intensity.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 9, 2010, at 7:58 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Consider this:
>>>> 
>>>> A torsion pendulum with blackened vanes on the perimeter suspended from
>>>> a
>>>> fiber. Part way up the fiber is an optical shutter and a small fixed
>>>> magnet so the shutter is stable in two positions with some hysteresis.
>>>> One
>>>> position lets light fall on the vanes, one does not.
>>>> 
>>>> This would make an optically pumped pendulum w/ no electronics.
>>>> 
>>>> -John
>>>> 
>>>> ==============
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you abandoned the non-elecronic side of the requirement, you could
>>>>> hit
>>>>> it with a pulsed LED and probably get phase data off of a couple of
>>>>> photo
>>>>> detectors.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Crazy stuff ...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 9, 2010, at 6:21 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe you could "pump" the pendulum optically, using a beam of light,
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> those glass bulb "radiometers" they sell that spin on a sunny window
>>>>>> ledge.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> =============
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Like a magnetically coupled escapement
>>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Bob Camp <lists at cq.nu>
>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:36:11
>>>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency
>>>>>>> measurement<time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Non electrical time-nuttery
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How about a rotary pendulum on a quartz fiber spring with some kind
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> trick magnets to drive it  / read it out? Put the pendulum and spring
>>>>>>> inside an evacuated glass envelope to get around the vacuum pump
>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>> The enclosure could be pretty small.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Drive the magnets with a second external clock, and feedback
>>>>>>> compensate
>>>>>>> it. Let the external clock do all the readout via a very normal gear
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> pointers system. The trick would be getting the feedback loop to work
>>>>>>> purely mechanically with enough gain to "unload" the master pendulum.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 9, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Lux, Jim (337C) wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> OK.. So we're moving back in electrical technology....
>>>>>>>> But what about mechanical?  Could modern technology get a
>>>>>>>> substantial
>>>>>>>> (>order of magnitude) improvement over 19th century chronometers
>>>>>>>> (either
>>>>>>>> pendulum or balance wheel or whatever).  I know there's some really
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> quartz fiber torsional spring schemes, but I think they still need
>>>>>>>> electrical means to keep them moving and to read it out.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So how good can one do with a mechanical, hydraulic, (or chemical, I
>>>>>>>> suppose) system?  Let's assume it has to have a "direct" readout
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> human readable by a causal bystander.  (this starts to sound like
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> 10,000 year clock or whatever it is..)
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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> 
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