[time-nuts] Heathkid - New time-nut needs help [Update]

Tue Jul 27 14:58:33 UTC 2010

You might want to look at this link for useful info on the 5680A,
http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/PROJ/Ruby.htm, and right down the bottom of
this link, http://www.redrok.com/misc1.htm.

73 de Steve

On 28/07/2010, Steve Rooke <sar10538 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Kia Ora Brice,
>
> On 27/07/2010, Heathkid <heathkid at heathkid.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, the FEI 5680A's I got are programmable from 1Hz to 20MHz (SMA output
>> /
>> currently set to 10MHz) plus has the RS232 for programming and one of
>> those
>> pins (besides the Rb lock pin that goes low and I've got a LED on it) has
>> the 1pps.  Besides the "C" field potentiometer it also has a 0 to 5V fine
>> tune voltage.  The slowest of the three takes only about 4 seconds to
>> achieve Rb lock.  Here are the exact units I got (and "flyingbest" is a
>> great and honest seller):
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180435915714
>
> Not the cheapest I have seen but at least you have a full kit and they
> are the programmable ones. What's the PSU like, how good is the
> regulation on it as this will have a factor on how clean the output
> is. Monitor the voltage at startup right through to it running stable
> and see if it changes. There seems to be no requirement for +5V for
> programming the device in the listing you quote but others have
> indicated that this needs to be connected to pin 4 of the DB-9. That
> being said, the info I have,
> http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/msg01569.html, does not
> show a C field adjustment on pin 8. The SMA connector looks like it
> has been retrofitted IMHO so it would be interesting to pop the hood
> and look for any mods done by the seller.
>
>> The Thunderbolt I bought from fluke.l as he seems to be the "TBolt seller
>> of
>> choice" around here.  I also got the LCD display option (looks like fun
>> to
>> see what it's doing when not connected to a PC).
>
> Yes, I'm yet to get one of those LCD displays although there is quite
> a discussion thread on these in the archives and you can see the
> background to this. Before you put the LCD display on for long term
> use, I suggest you run it with Lady Heather to see how it it is
> tracking sats and stabilising. The tuning of the PLL constants is the
> subject of quite a few threads in the archives so you can learn a lot
> from that. Once your happy that it's running fine, connect the LCD
> display but I'd run it for a few weeks before you get to that stage as
> the ocxo will have been sitting on the shelf cold and you want to see
> how that is shaping up (this will take months before the xo really
> beds in). You should also keep an eye on it continuing to track sats
> as some people have found that their TB's have completely lost the
> plot at times. When you first start it up it won't know what the heck
> is going on as the location it was last running will be internally
> stored and it will be looking for sats in the sky and not seeing them.
> You should make sure it does a survey straight away so that sanity is
> restored and/or you can enter your exact location of the antenna if
> you know that.
>
> I don't know your location but you should make sure that your antenna
> is located in a good position where it has a good sight to the south
> and look out for multipath reception, trees, buildings, etc. but your
> a ham anyway and must be in a good position to fix it up as your doing
> QRP.
>
>> Okay, so today... I bought a "real" frequency counter.  After a LOT of
>> looking and reading... I chose a HP 5335A.  It has option 10 (Oven
>> Oscillator) and 030 (C Channel 1.3 GHz ) plus the HPIB plus math and
>> statistics functions standard and includes operating and service manuals
>> on
>> CD.  It'll also be calibrated just prior to shipping to me (current Date
>> Due
>> 03/19/11) but it will be re-calibrated just for me so at least I know
>> it'll
>> work and if there is a problem, I can return it.  :)
>
> Well, that's a nice purchase and I'm sure it will serve you well.
>
>> So, now I have the following (when the rest shows up):
>>
>> (3) FEI 5680A Programmable Rubidium Frequency Standards w/ 1pps
>> (1) Thunderbolt "Complete Kit" w/ LCD display - from fluke.l
>> (1) HP 5335A Universal Counter w/ Options 10 (Oven Oscillator) & 030 (C
>> Channel 1.3 GHz)
>
> Well, that's a start, or should I say, the slippery slope :) You'll
> have a good setup with this and have a decent frequency standard for
> your lab equipment. You can program those 5680A's to output directly
> on some of the HF bands and have a Rb controlled QRP rig :)
>
>> Hopefully, Stanley got my payment for the PICTIC II boards and I got an
>> email back from Bob about getting me on the list for the programmed PICs.
>
> All you need now is a DMTD and you'll be in a good position to things
> like ADEV measurements on your sources. As the Rbs are not great at
> close-in ADEV, it would be worth while looking for the dual-oven HP
> 10811.
>
>> That's where I'm at right now.
>
> Well, your doing OK.
>
> 73 de Steve ZL3TUV & G8KVD
>
>> 73 Brice KA8MAV
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Rooke" <sar10538 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 7:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricom X72
>>
>>
>>> Yes, it's because of the various types that you need to verify exactly
>>> what you have. A number of them are made to customer specifications
>>> with undocumented option numbers but if you have anything like an
>>> option 8 then you have the 1Hz to 20MHz version. Beware that to
>>> program the thing you need to provide +5V as well as the +15V to run
>>> it. Along with the output options, there are a slew of options on such
>>> things as ageing and temperature stability. If you have one from a
>>> telecom's cellular tower, it's likely to be of higher spec.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On 26/07/2010, Bob Camp <lists at rtty.us> wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> One issue with the FE's is they often show up as conversions. Various
>>>> sellers take the 1 pps version and hack in a 10 MHz output. There is a
>>>> lot
>>>> of room for error in the conversion process.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 26, 2010, at 7:06 AM, Steve Rooke <sar10538 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Brice,
>>>>>
>>>>> On 26/07/2010, Heathkid <heathkid at heathkid.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Last night, as suggested by several people on this list... I ordered
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> Trimble Thunderbolt from Bob Mokia, fluke.l so I should be in pretty
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> shape there to get started once it arrives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like your starting on the long path to time-nuttiness :) Bob
>>>>> has supplied a lot of stuff to people on this list and he will look
>>>>> after you if anything is amiss.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The counter I mentioned (it's a DFD4 - modified with the tcxo as the
>>>>>> "a"
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> anyway).  :)  By the way, when I built it, I calibrated it by zero
>>>>>> beating
>>>>>> against WWV at 10 and 20 MHz.  That was the best way I had at the
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> if the DFD4 is now 7 Hz off after all these years... it's not doing
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> bad
>>>>>> (based on it's limitations).
>>>>>
>>>>> Not bad considering it's a TCXO.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So... that's what that counter is for and not for what I'm doing now.
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> currently looking for a nice/used HP counter.  Please don't think I'm
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to use the DFD4 for measuring my Rb standards.  It's a wonderful
>>>>>> counter
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> what it was designed for and that's it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dependant upon what your looking for in a counter, you could broaden
>>>>> your choices as there are other useful counters out there that may be
>>>>> more affordable but still as good. Try looking for a Racal-Dana 1992,
>>>>> preferably with the high stability option timebase (although these
>>>>> turn up seperately anyway and are a doddle to fit). It makes a nice
>>>>> footprint 1ns counter and can be referenced to your T'Bolt.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not giving up on the FEI's anytime soon.  I understand now that
>>>>>> along
>>>>>> with the Trimble Thunderbolt (and a decent counter) I'll be on my way
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> "getting started".
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll have to see if those FEI's are the programmable types which can
>>>>> be set to produce frequencies up to 20MHz. Do they have jut the D'Sub
>>>>> connector or have an RF connector as well. There are different
>>>>> variants of these produced by FEI under the same product code.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 de Steve ZL3TUV & G8KVD
>>>>>
>>>>>> 73 Brice KA8MAV
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Steve Rooke" <sar10538 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>>>>>> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 8:40 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricom X72
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Excuse my replying to my own posting please.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This post is really about the DFD1 frequency counter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heathkid: You are comparing a Rb against a frequency counter with a
>>>>>>> TCXO that you tweaked yourself to calibrate it against no known
>>>>>>> frequency standard. Try running the three FEI-5660s for 24 hours and
>>>>>>> then measure the output of each with your frequency counter. Pick
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> mean of them and adjust your DFD1 to match that. At least you should
>>>>>>> be in a better position than you are now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you built the DFD1 yourself, you should have the schematic and
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> be able to engineer in a connection for an external reference. There
>>>>>>> is plenty of people here who would be happy to advise you on a
>>>>>>> suitable interface if you can attach the part of the circuit where
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> TCXO is located. If you do get a T'Both, you would be able to use it
>>>>>>> as a reference or, perhaps, build in one of the FEI-5660s as an
>>>>>>> internal reference. The limiting factor though is how good is the
>>>>>>> circuit used in the DFD1 which will limit it's stability and
>>>>>>> accuracy.
>>>>>>> There are many factors, including input circuit, voltage regulation,
>>>>>>> counter stage design, level detection, etc. which have a major
>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>> here. What I'm getting at is that to write-off a bunch of FEI-5660s
>>>>>>> after checking them with such a device as this, is a very poor
>>>>>>> decision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe you could look at a better counter on fleeBay before you make
>>>>>>> further assumptions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 26/07/2010, Steve Rooke <sar10538 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Sage advice Bill!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Heathkid, you don't need another Rb unit when you have 3 perfectly
>>>>>>>> decent ones! You really need a standard to calibrate your Rb units
>>>>>>>> to,
>>>>>>>> a Trimble Thunderbolt is likely to be the cheapest choice for you.
>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>> Mokia, fluke.l, on fleeBay sells them separately or as a starter
>>>>>>>> kit
>>>>>>>> with everything there to get you going. Once you have this up and
>>>>>>>> running for quite some time and see that things are looking stable
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the Lady Heather application, then you can start to think about
>>>>>>>> calibrating the FEI-5680's but only after you have run them in
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> don't know your counter but does it have an input for an external
>>>>>>>> reference source? If so you will be able to use the T'Bolt as an
>>>>>>>> external reference for it, providing the required reference is
>>>>>>>> 10MHz.
>>>>>>>> If it's not, you can divide down the T'Bolt's output to match. If
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> frequency counter has no reference input (apart from throwing it in
>>>>>>>> the bin) you should be able to engineer it into the instrument,
>>>>>>>> depending on your skill set.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, first get yourself a frequency standard to work with, IE. a
>>>>>>>> T'Bolt
>>>>>>>> or the like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My 2c worth,
>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/07/2010, WB6BNQ <wb6bnq at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> To Bob and Stan (W1LE),
>>>>>>>>> [p.s. But not just to you two alone]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why complicate the answers to Heathkid (now Brice KA8MAV) with a
>>>>>>>>> bunch
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> different directions that should only be decided after one gains
>>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>>> knowledge and understanding (they are not the same) to properly
>>>>>>>>> grasp
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> subject matter ? ? ? ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clearly Heathkid needs some guidance.  The form should be to start
>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> the very basics and get his feet on the ground.  He already has
>>>>>>>>> three
>>>>>>>>> (3)
>>>>>>>>> Rb
>>>>>>>>> sources that should keep him busy for quite some time.  However,
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> counter
>>>>>>>>> is really junk from a lab point of view.  Nonetheless, even it can
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>> if it is understood how to apply it after understanding its
>>>>>>>>> limitations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What Heathkid needs to understand is it is not about equipment.
>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> about how to measure and account for errors and unknowns.
>>>>>>>>> Actually,
>>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> daunting task depending upon the level of achievement.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree he needs some kind of external reference and I agree the
>>>>>>>>> Trimble
>>>>>>>>> Thunderbolt (Tbolt) would be the right item for his true
>>>>>>>>> reference.
>>>>>>>>> Even
>>>>>>>>> the Tbolt has its issues that need to be understood.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He will also need a method of comparison.   The oscilloscope is a
>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>> but very tedious.  Here Burt's project would help him a lot when
>>>>>>>>> Burt
>>>>>>>>> gets
>>>>>>>>> it done.  I guess he is close.  I guess, also, the PICTIC II would
>>>>>>>>> fit
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> bill after he understands what it is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Still he needs to understand how to apply and use this stuff.
>>>>>>>>> Confusing
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> with suggesting all of the different Rb sources available is only
>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> think a better one { relative statement } would be the answer
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> true.  His FEI-5680's are so much better for his particular level,
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> even funny.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What has not been asked of him is what are his goals and
>>>>>>>>> intentions.
>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> is to just say you have an atomic frequency reference, then sit
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> FEI-5680
>>>>>>>>> on the coffee table; job done.  One cannot be properly guided if
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> goals
>>>>>>>>> are unknown.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill....WB6BNQ
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob Camp wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The only way to be sure of what's going on is to have several
>>>>>>>>>> (hopefully)
>>>>>>>>>> accurate references. With at least three you can begin to guess
>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>> they are.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The TBolt is different from the Rb in a couple of regards:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1) It's short term stability isn't as good when locked tightly to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> GPS.
>>>>>>>>>> 2) It's long term stability is much better than the Rb when it's
>>>>>>>>>> locked.
>>>>>>>>>> 3) It's easier to tell what's happening with it if you hook up a
>>>>>>>>>> PC
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> the Lady Heather (free) program.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Rb will need a couple of things to make it play right:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1) It's got to have a pretty good heat sink on it. An 8 x 10"
>>>>>>>>>> piece
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> 1/4" aluminum is a reasonable start
>>>>>>>>>> 2) It's got to be run for a while (possibly 24 hours) before it
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> stable
>>>>>>>>>> 3) You need to watch the lock, and lamp voltages to be sure it's
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>>> something crazy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My recommendation based on cost is the Efratom LPRO for a cheap
>>>>>>>>>> Rb.
>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>> are in the ~$60 range and seem to work pretty well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Setup wise, I would get a TBolt in addition to the Rb. You need
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> to calibrate the Rb (and your counter TCXO) against. Both are
>>>>>>>>>> "secondary"
>>>>>>>>>> standards. They (unlike a Cesium) are adjusted to match a known
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>> reference.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Once you have the Rb and the TBolt, next step is up to you.
>>>>>>>>>> Cesium
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> always an alternative, so's a Hydrogen Maser ....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2010, at 3:32 PM, Heathkid wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Bob,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What would you recommend?  I already have three FE-5680A Rb
>>>>>>>>>>> standards
>>>>>>>>>>> (which I'm quickly learning likely aren't worth the powder to
>>>>>>>>>>> blow
>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> to (*insert your own word here*).  Okay, that was probably my
>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>> mistake (thoughts?).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My frequency counter is one I built from a kit from aade.com
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> the TCXO option (although I had to tweak it myself so I have NO
>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>> close it is to any accuracy or precision).  I have access to
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>> nice HP counters at work so that's my next step is to try one of
>>>>>>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>>>>>> My DFD4 measured the output of one of my 5680A's to 10.000.007
>>>>>>>>>>> MHz
>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>> about a 10 minute warm-up.  I don't know which one is off.
>>>>>>>>>>> Reading
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> specs on the 5680A's before I bought them looked like they were
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>>>>>> decent.  I'm learning...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, what "reasonably priced" Rb standard would you recommend?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Should my next step in this process be a Trimble Thunderbolt?
>>>>>>>>>>> Am
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> starting over?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Camp" <lists at rtty.us>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>>>>>>>>>>> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 9:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Symmetricom X72
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At least looking at the spec sheet it's not really very
>>>>>>>>>>>> impressive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 23, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Heathkid wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello.  Does anyone have any experience with the Symmetricom
>>>>>>>>>>>>> X72?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
>>>>>>>> The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at
>>>>>>>> once.
>>>>>>>> - Einstein
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
>>>>>>> The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at
>>>>>>> once.
>>>>>>> - Einstein
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
>>>>> The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
>>>>> - Einstein
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
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>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
>>> The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
>>> - Einstein
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
> The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
> - Einstein
>

-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein