[time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

Tue Oct 5 23:33:15 UTC 2010

Hi

Poor, but not poor enough in this case. A quarter wave at 100KC goes pretty deep. If you can drill a well there, you will hit the ground water with your antenna's ground side. The loss in getting there will be just as bad as anything else. Next issue would be stability over a poor ground when it rains. 

I suspect that they are going to pull a *lot* of copper out of the ground at some of the Loran stations. 

Bob

On Oct 5, 2010, at 6:16 PM, J. Forster wrote:

> Depends on your soil. New England is mainly rock with very poor conductivity.
> 
> -John
> 
> ==============
> 
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Same gotcha as the horizontal dipole - most of the energy is shorted out
>> by the ground. Think of a transformer with a shorted turn.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 5, 2010, at 5:58 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>> 
>>> A loop around the house?
>>> 
>>> -John
>>> 
>>> ==============
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> Ok, the next layer to this onion is the antenna. At 100KC your antenna
>>>> is
>>>> 35X smaller than it is on 80 meters foot for foot. In other words, your
>>>> 100' tall vertical on 80 equates to a <3 foot tall antenna at 100 KC.
>>>> QRP
>>>> on 80 with a 3' transmit antenna anybody? Been there done that, not
>>>> much
>>>> range at all. At VLF forget about transmitting with a horizontal
>>>> antenna
>>>> unless you are airborne.
>>>> 
>>>> It's not just the antenna, the ground counts as well. If you are by the
>>>> seashore that may not be a big deal. If you are inland, prepare to lay
>>>> many very long radials.
>>>> 
>>>> ----------
>>>> 
>>>> After that you hit signal to noise. The receivers worked as well as
>>>> they
>>>> did because they had an enormous signal to work with. There's an
>>>> amazing
>>>> amount of crud running around down below 200 KHz these days. Even for
>>>> timing you need a lot of signal to get good results.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> KB8TQ
>>>> 
>>>> Ham for way more than 30 years....
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 5, 2010, at 4:59 PM, paul swed wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Well crazy as it sounds if you are at 100 KC you might just want 1
>>>>> loran
>>>>> tower in a chain or even fewer. You only need 1 station not 3. Timing
>>>>> rcvrs
>>>>> worked on one signal.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 4:46 PM, <shalimr9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not necessarily, on 3 phase systems, you would have to be creative to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> below .9
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can easily get to .95 with a simple multipulse rectification.
>>>>>> Beyond
>>>>>> that, other than regulatory compliance, you do not gain much
>>>>>> efficiency.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can't imagine these systems running on anything other than 3 phase
>>>>>> power.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Didier
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quik.com>
>>>>>> Sender: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 13:37:21
>>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<
>>>>>> time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: jfor at quik.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency
>>>>>> measurement
>>>>>>     <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And the Power Factor sucks, so there is a lot less real power being
>>>>>> used.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> =============
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ok, but that is no megawatt!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Also, most of the transmitters were doing multi duty, handling
>>>>>>> several chains simultaneously.  That would up the average power
>>>>>>> proportionately.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Chuck Harris
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message<4CAB888B.4040604 at erols.com>, Chuck Harris writes:
>>>>>>>>> It is a pulse transmitter.  It makes short bursts of 10 or 12
>>>>>>>>> pulses,
>>>>>>>>> and then waits one GRI, and then does it again.  I would think the
>>>>>>>>> actual continuous power draw is around 10Kw.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://phk.freebsd.dk/photos/L9007M/dscf0458.jpg.html
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> About 50kW for Eiï¿½i (400kW, 9007M)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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