[time-nuts] Discipline an oscillator with NTP?

[Don Latham]

Hi Bjorn: Thanks very much for the sources! I was afraid I was not clear
when I sent my question(s). I want to generate a network server rather
than a client. I looked up man ntpd, and it seems at first glance to be
a Linux/Unix client that will sync up a local computer. I want to
generate a network server that ntpd or other clients can access. Perhaps
I did not read closely enough, and if not, I apologize.
Don

bg at lysator.liu.se
> Hi Don,
>
> 1PPS is useful. 10MHz is not direcly useful. You also need some kind of
> timecode, telling ntpd which second the 1pps indicated.
>
> The software side is normally ntpd configured with one of its drivers
> (called refclock) for the GPS protocol your receiver has. Again the most
> used is probably refclock_NMEA.
> (http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/drivers/driver20.html) look
> if
> there is anything else fitting your receivers.
>
>    http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/refclock.html
>
> Then wire a (preferably) serial cable with rx, tx and gnd in the usual
> places, add your 1PPS on DCD (pin 1). Depending on your serial port you
> could get away without levelshifting the 1pps to rs232-levels.
>
> Last but not least, for OS select your favorite unix derivative.
>
> --
>
>    Björn
>
>> Poul and others?
>> As usual, I suddenly had a thought ripple across my otherwise placid
>> cortex, and have forgotten if there was a previous answer on this
>> thread. What does a NTP server look like on the network? There are now
>> several small net appliances/eval boards available. I run a program
>> called NMEAtime on my Windoze computers that currently get info from a
>> net NTP server. I also have some simple net appliances. So, using my
>> GPS
>> 10 MHZ or 1 sec signals, or Rb 10 MHZ, how might I generate a local
>> NTP
>> server?
>> I hope I don't put this awkwardly; what is the protocol? What does the
>> supplicant client see and how does it ask for service?
>> Best to all of you,
>> Don
>>
>>
>> Poul-Henning Kamp
>>> In message <022101cc4970$b24a4b80$16dee280$@com>, "Jose Camara"
>>> writes:
>>>
>>>>After
>>>>one year of NTP queries, assume you have a 100ms jitter on the
>>>> network
>>>> time,
>>>>you could at most tweak your oscillator, based on past performance,
>>>> to
>>>> 6E-9.
>>>
>>> It is a lot more complicated than that, we need to talk
>>> allan-deviation
>>> here, not scalar numbers.
>>>
>>> The main problem here is that the 'default' NTPd software is not
>>> really
>>> written for something like this, and has attributes which makes it
>>> truly sucky for the task.
>>>
>>> If you want to do this, you want to write your own software and you
>>> want to give it an entirely different modus operandi.
>>>
>>> As with all oscillator discplining, what you are looking for is
>>> the so called "allan intercept" where the two sources allan deviation
>>> cross.
>>>
>>> With a NTP reference, its location varies depending on stochastic
>>> network properties, which depends what's between the server and you.
>>>
>>> If you control the network topology (as in: Can make sure there is
>>> no other traffic), you're fine, normal PLL style stuff works.
>>>
>>> If you don't control the network topology, the RTT between you and
>>> the server becomes a BIG problem, because the fundamental NTP
>>> assumption that it is symmetric is almost always wrong.
>>>
>>> You can average over long tau's, but then your ISP upgrades their
>>> routed and a systematic change in RTT screws your integrator over
>>> for several weeks.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, if your LO is stable enough (=Rb/Cs), you can operate
>>> on first derivative of the RTT, which turns the routed upgrade into
>>> a single spiky sample, but the cost is an overall higher noise in
>>> your error signal.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
>>> phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
>>> FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
>>> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
>>> incompetence.
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
>> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
>> R. Bacon
>> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
>> Ghost in the Shell
>>
>>
>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
>> Six Mile Systems LLP
>> 17850 Six Mile Road
>> POB 134
>> Huson, MT, 59846
>> VOX 406-626-4304
>> www.lightningforensics.com
>> www.sixmilesystems.com
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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-- 
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com