# [time-nuts] No more 60Hz! TEC Elimination

Will Matney xformer at citynet.net
Fri Jun 24 22:20:27 EDT 2011

```John,

That's true, but can the secondary voltage stand to drop that much? Let's
say we have a 12 volt regulated circuit, and the design engineer used the
minimum input voltage to the regulator of 13.4 volts, or 1.4 volts over the
regulated value needed (I've seen this done). Dropping the line from say
120 Vac to 100 Vac would drop the secondary DC down to around 11.2 to 11.4
Vdc, well under the minimum supply voltage of 13.4 Vdc, and under the
regulated value. When you get into plate transformers, with high winding
ratios, the voltage drop gets a good bit different. However, I should have
said, one should never run a 60 Hz transformer, or motor, on the same line
voltage it was rated for at a lower 50 Hz.

Best,

Will

On 6/24/2011 at 7:03 PM J. Forster wrote:

>I'd severly doubt they'd allow anything like 10%.
>
>Also remember that the peak flux, that determins saturation, is the
>integral of I dT, so you can run a 60 Hz transformer at 50 Hz if you
>reduce the input to 100 VAC instead of 120 VAC.
>
>-John
>
>===================
>
>
>> We have AEP here, but it's like you said, go out in the country where
>> Buckeye Rual Elect. is, and you have outages all the time, and you don't
>> want to live there in the winter.
>>
>> Clocks is not what I'm concerned over as much as certain pieces of
>> industrial equipment that must rotate at a certain speed, or are
supposed
>> to. Also, if they are going to allow the frequency to get slower, any
>> motor, or transformer, needs more iron in it, and just a 10 Hz
difference
>> is enough to amount to a significant increase in iron. One can easily
use
>> a
>> 50 Hz transformer on 60 Hz, but not a 60 Hz on 50 Hz. The speed
difference
>> in motors from 50 Hz to 60 Hz would be around 1.2%, just roughly
guessing
>> it in my head, at 1800 RPM, and we don't know how much they intend to
>> allow
>> it to vary.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>> On 6/24/2011 at 6:33 PM gary wrote:
>>
>>>It all depends where you live. I know people that get an outage a week,
>>>so setting clocks is a way of life.
>>>
>>>PGE, bless their corporate hearts, is run both like a Swiss clock and
>>>third world nation power. If you have a fair amount of industry or malls
>>>nearby (i.e. customers), your power is great. Live at the edge of town,
>>>and things are not so good, even in Silicon Valley. Monte Sereno, Monta
>>>Vista (now Cupertino), etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>On 6/24/2011 6:07 PM, Will Matney wrote:
>>>> I predict, with all of my oracle abilities, snort, that the test won't
>> run
>>>> no time until there's a law suit. Almost everyone uses battery powered
>>>> clocks nowdays, on the wall, and most alarms are digital with xtal
>>>> timebases. However, there are still those old foggies who still have
>>>> motorized clocks depending on 60Hz to do their duty. If this makes
them
>>>> obsolete, I wonder if the government is prepared to buy folks
>> replacement
>>>> clocks, like they provided the digital receivers for our TV's? Like I
>> said,
>>>> I can see a courtroom battle as I write this.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Will
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/24/2011 at 8:50 PM paul swed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "change you can count on"
>>>>> Thanks. All those silly alarm clocks by the bed.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Bob Kupiec<bobkupiec at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AP: Power grid change may disrupt clocks
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110624/ap_on_hi_te/us_sci_power_clocks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Time Error Correction Elimination
>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>> http://www.nerc.com/page.php?cid=6|386
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NERC Report - June 14
>>>>>> ---------------------
>>>>>> http://www.nerc.com/files/NERC_TEC_Field_Trial_Webinar_061411.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>
>
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```