[time-nuts] WWVB Measurements

Lenny Story lenny at Codematic.com
Sun Mar 27 02:51:23 UTC 2011


All,

Actually i don't mind all the chatter, gives me more information regarding
all of the topic really.

Been interested in time, on a social level since military school, where
"clock drift" was my #1 excuse for being late to class.  :)

73
-Lenny Story
N1YEZ


On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 10:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually from what I have seen John it is indeed pretty large and does jump
> for many reasons. The sun maybe wx. But when you think about the local
> oscillator and that is pretty stable and not jumping. Then over time the
> phase of wwvb should come back to a predetermined position or lots of
> measured points should hang around a particular time. How fine grain that
> might be is hard to say. The other thing is the 90 degree phase shift at 15
> after the hour as I recall that has to be accounted for. But again
> predictable and the results of whats measured can be stored for a long
> time.
>
> Anyhow this is Lenny's thread do not want to take it over.
> Regards
> Paul
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:53 PM, J. Forster <jfor at quik.com> wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> >
> > I did that years ago in a qualitative way.
> >
> > I used a local reference of an HP 105B and the 117A w/ HP loop. I synced
> a
> > Tek 7854 to the local standard and watched and averaged the recovered 60
> > KHz. I no longer remember the results well, but sometimes the "seeing"
> was
> > <1uS P-P and on other days it was at least 10s of uS to hundreds of uS.
> >
> > This may be hard for some to believe, but the seeing seemed to depend on
> > weather. A big front coming east would make the "seeing" much worse. This
> > was just a casual observation. I never spent much time studying it. If I
> > saw the seeing was horid, I just left the stuff running and went away.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > -John
> >
> > ==================
> >
> >
> >
> > > Interesting thread and welcome to time-nuts.
> > >
> > > Well I suppose since LORAN C has been shut down and I have to say not
> > > having
> > > a lot of luck with LORAN from Europe I have dusted off the ole WWVB
> > > receivers. Actually they have been a live a long time. Just spoiled by
> > > LORAN
> > > and GPS..
> > > My actual interest is a Tracor 599 and I do have 2 X HP 117s and a loop
> > > antenna with preamp about 140' from the house.
> > >
> > > A couple of things I am thinking about. Considering many on time-nuts
> > have
> > > very accurate rubidium or better references or GPS trained Oscillators
> I
> > > was
> > > going to look at the propagation changes from a semi stable reference
> > > perspective since the local references are quite stable over time.
> > >
> > > Measuring over time would indeed give you an idea about the strange and
> > > wacky 60 KHZ propagation beyond diurnal shift.
> > >
> > > Ultimately could better information be obtained over significant time
> so
> > > that you might have an alternate to GPS. There are articles that were
> > > published in the 60s by HP and others that describe what might be
> > > expected.
> > > I am just thinking we have a lot of additional technology, methods and
> > > tools
> > > that they did not have. Like laptops that can remember 100s of days
> worth
> > > of
> > > data and process the heck out of it. Not that you need that much.
> > >
> > > So I have to troubleshoot an oddity in the 599. John, its loosing lock.
> > Is
> > > it broken, is it propagation.... Tough to say. After all its 70s
> vintage
> > > could be cranky caps or even handfuls of transistors.By the way I did
> > > build
> > > a 60 KHZ xmitter and by golly it does stay locked very nicely. That
> still
> > > doesn't mean somethings not broken.
> > >
> > > Also I need to build a 60 KC breakout/buffer box so that all three
> rcvrs
> > > can
> > > operate at the same time and their outputs can be scaled to the
> recorder.
> > > Have a very fine box just need to do it.
> > >
> > > Lenny I am south of Boston. Think Johns from around here also.
> > > Regards
> > > Paul
> > > WB8TSL
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Lenny Story <lenny at codematic.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> All,
> > >>
> > >> I think you may be right. Although i did read somewhere that this
> design
> > >> was
> > >> originally just a technical example of an ATMEL 8-bit DSP ... not sure
> > >> though.
> > >>
> > >> -Lenny
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Hal Murray <hmurray at megapathdsl.net>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > lenny at Codematic.com said:
> > >> > > As i stated earlier, i'm using a CMMR-60p, which seems to just be
> a
> > >> small
> > >> > > DSP.
> > >> >
> > >> > The data sheet at SparkFun shows that it's just an analog receiver
> > >> with a
> > >> > peak detector and AGC.
> > >> >
> > >> > Does anybody have any ideas on how much better you could do with an
> > >> ADC
> > >> and
> > >> > DSP?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
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