[time-nuts] Neutrino timing

shalimr9 at gmail.com shalimr9 at gmail.com
Mon Oct 24 14:21:39 EDT 2011


That will only work at the time you get there, which may not be the time of the experiment.

I think they need a more permanent solution.

Didier KO4BB


Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bob Camp" <lists at rtty.us>
Sender: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:03:58 
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'<time-nuts at febo.com>
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
	<time-nuts at febo.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing

Hi

The "quick and dirty" way to improve the timing is pretty old school.

Toss a modern Cesium clock in the back of a car along with a bunch of
batteries. Drive it back and forth between Batavia and Soudan. If you drive
fast, that should be about an 8 hour trip. A good Cesium should hold 5 to
10X better than the GPS is now doing. 

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
Behalf Of Marvin Marshak
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 11:53 AM
To: time-nuts at febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Neutrino timing

Good morning,

Recently physicists using a neutrino beam from Geneva Switzerland to the
Gran Sasso
in Italy have reported a measurement of neutrino velocity that is faster
than the speed of
light. The effect over a 730 km path length is reported as 60 ns, which
means that precise
timing is required at both ends of the beam to have sensitivity to this
effect. The reported 
result, if true, has major implications for the fundamental understanding of
physics. 
Thus, it is important to carry out independent checks of this measurement.

A similar beam exists between Fermi National Accelerator Lab in Batavia IL
and the University
of Minnesota's Underground Laboratory at Soudan in northeastern Minnesota.
This U.S. beam has
been used to make a similar measurement, but the GPS timing equipment that
was used
(Truetime XL-AK, Model 600-101-015) resulted in an estimated uncertainty of
about 70 ns 
in the neutrino time-of-flight, too large to test the recently reported
effect. I am one of a 
group of physicists working with the neutrino beam in the U.S.

Although we are also talking with professionals at USNO and NIST, I am
interested in possible
suggestions from the "Time Nut" community with respect to the following:

	(a) the possibility of retrospectively improving the existing timing
data recorded since 2005 using
the Truetime XL-AK, and
	(b) a quick, low-cost improvement in the timing instrumentation that
can be made right away, 
pending arrangements for techniques such as Two-Way Satellite
synchronization.

In addition, if there are any "Time Nuts" in the Minnesota area who would
like to get more involved in this project,
please feel free to contact me at marshak at umn.edu

Thank you very much.

Marvin Marshak


Marvin L. Marshak
College of Science and Engineering Professor
Morse-Alumni Professor
University of Minnesota
116 Church Street SE
Minneapolis MN 55455  612-624-1312     612-624-4578 (fax)





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