[time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53131A (not 53151A) trigger problems

Don Latham djl at montana.com
Mon Aug 27 15:31:25 EDT 2012


Isn't crystal aging marked by random jumps? perhaps lattice
rearrangement? Really hard if not impossible to model...
Don

Azelio Boriani
> 30mV are -13dBm so maybe it is why the -20dBm is not a suitable level
> for
> that input. I have the 53132A and the 53181A so I can test (with the R&S
> SML01). Is this problem new? Never tested before?
>
> About the OCXO aging: OK, I'm interested in the development of a model
> that
> can be general enough so that it can be "steered", adjusting its
> parameters, during the OCXO life. The data (to adjust the parameters)
> will
> be gathered by the continuous monitoring with the GPS.
>
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Bernd Neubig <bneubig at t-online.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Azelio,
>>
>> Sorry, the counters are 53131A, not 53151A. The A and B inputs are
>> specified
>> from DC to 225 MHz with a sensitivity of y20 mV (rms) up to 100 MHz,
>> <30 mV
>> (rms) 100 ~ 200 MHz, and <50 mV (rms) 200 ~ 225 MHz.
>> The problem can be at either input alone. The problem is only in the
>> range
>> between 100 MHz and <200 MHz, observed in automatic trigger mode. In
>> manual
>> trigger mode the counter does not trigger at all in that freq range.
>>
>> I cannot tell you an aging model for a particular OCXO, and I doubt if
>> anyone can ;) Aging predictions can only be made on individual OCXO,
>> unit
>> by
>> unit, and the prediction is only valid over a rather limited time.
>> Therefore
>> you must continuously monitor and update your prediction.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Bernd
>> DK1AG
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] Im
>> Auftrag von Azelio Boriani
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 24. August 2012 17:28
>> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53151A trigger problems
>>
>> From the datasheet:
>> A input 10Hz..125MHz min level 25mVrms (-19dBm) B input min 50MHz,
>> -20dBm
>> the problem is on A input only? Maybe 150MHz for the A input, being
>> beyond
>> the official specifications, requires more signal on one counter than
>> the
>> other. In the past they all were fine?
>> I have read your paper on the correlation between the real and
>> predicted
>> aging of crystal oscillators. I'm trying to find a suitable model for
>> the
>> Morion MV201 OCXO or the Oscilloquartz 8663 to implement a Kalman
>> filter.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Bernd Neubig <BNeubig at t-online.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I have several HP/Agilent frequency counters 53151A (and 53152A) in
>> my
>> lab.
>> > Several of them meanwhile show trigger problems.
>> >
>> > I have tested the A and B channel between 5 MHz and 200 MHZ at three
>> > input levels of -10 dBm, 0 dBm and +10 dBm.
>> >
>> > Those with trigger problems show erroneous numbers at -10 dBm input
>> > level rather selectively, i.e. mostly at 100 MHz, some also at 150
>> > MHz, while the are o.k.
>> >
>> > Has anyone on this list experienced similar defects and can give a
>> > recommendation how to fix/repair them?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Bernd
>> >
>> > DK1AG
>> >
>> > www.axtal.com
>> >
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-- 
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell


Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
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POB 134
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