[time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 96, Issue 89
Stephen Farthing
squirrox at gmail.com
Mon Jul 23 17:16:27 UTC 2012
Guys,
Thanks for all the advice. I'll let you know how it goes...
Steve
On 23 July 2012 18:06, <time-nuts-request at febo.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Zero-Crossing Detector Design? (ct1dmk)
> 2. Trimble T Lassen 2 - suitable antenna....advice.....questions
> (Stephen Farthing)
> 3. Re: Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions (jmfranke)
> 4. Re: Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions (Azelio Boriani)
> 5. Re: Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions (Chris Albertson)
> 6. Re: Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions (Bob Bownes)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:37:25 +0100
> From: ct1dmk <ct1dmk at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Zero-Crossing Detector Design?
> Message-ID: <500D4585.8080308 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> No, never tried but it looks a good idea.
> Our boards all have 5v so there was never any pressure...
>
> ... for a 0.5v in the tail resistor to vcc and 0.7v of vbe
> I could easily allow collectors to swing some 300mv around 1.2V...
>
> a couple of resistors more than my single ended solution...
> but it should work fine from 3v3. Must try that. tks,
>
> lc
> ct1dmk,
>
>
>
>
> On 7/23/2012 12:35 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Did you try running it at 3.3V and going into an LVDS input on the FPGA?
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
>> Behalf Of ct1dmk
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 7:26 AM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Zero-Crossing Detector Design?
>>
>> For the specific application of driving an FPGA clock pin (that has an
>> enormous input bandwidth) many things can go wrong.
>> All fine about the advantages and disadvantages of
>> the gate with resistor feedback, all I can say is that over here I it
>> was not the best solution
>> we found over many FPGA board versions with external clock.
>> The latest design and the one we keep using standard now, uses a
>> differential pair of PNP
>> transistors (BFT91), this will have a moderate gain of x10 or so and the
>> resistors set
>> for making a limited wave of 0 to 3.0V (simple change of resistors can
>> make it 0-2.0V
>> or else required). we use a 100MHz narrow band limited bandwidth sin
>> signal so no filter
>> added, but we could add if we need one.
>> The output signal into the FPGA looks very clean and has a few ns rise
>> and fall times
>> (not super steep, but the fpga input does the rest. It does depend also
>> on the resistor values and current used in the transistor pair).
>> This was the way we could get the very minimum clock jitter in the FPGA
>> and a
>> simple circuit quite tolerant to input levels and make a very clean and
>> well defined signal
>> into the FPGA. Way better than 74F or 74LV gates etc.
>> The only inconvenience is that it needs +5V for the circuit to work (the
>> VCCIO of +3.3V is not enough).
>>
>> My 2 euro cents ;-)
>>
>> Luis Cupido
>> ct1dmk.
>>
>>
>> On 7/22/2012 9:32 PM, Bill Fuqua wrote:
>>> Wow, I have not checked this list for some time. But there is a lot said
>>> about zero crossing detectors.
>>> Lots and lots of replies, so many that I have not looked at all of them.
>>> 1. Do not use CMOS inverters. Even though so much has been published on
>>> using these in linear mode by
>>> adding a feedback resistor, they can be a nightmare. The fast ones
>>> (74HC, 74AC, etc) have so much high frequency gain they are
>>> likely to take off into oscillation on their own.
>>> 2. The first thing you can do to get a good clean zero crossing is to
>>> reduce the noise. This means to pass it
>>> thru a narrow band pass filter such as a crystal filter. The narrower
>>> this filter is the closer to a pure sinewave it becomes
>>> and the less noise you have.
>>> 3. In research when we want a precise trigger we use what is called a
>>> constant fraction discriminator.
>>> This may not be needed if you have a very clean signal and its amplitude
>>> does not vary and you are wanting to
>>> trigger exactly at zero. But a constant fraction discriminator triggers
>>> on a point that is a constant fraction of the
>>> amplitude of the signal. They require a delay so that a fraction of the
>>> peak of the cycle can be compared with the rising edge
>>> of that cycle. This is mostly used with triggering on pulses of varying
>>> heights and when subnanosecond
>>> timing is required.
>>>
>>> My suggestion is to clean up your signal as much as possible and reduce
>>> noise bandwidth using a bandpass filter and
>>> then use a low noise amplifier for the front end of your zero-crossing
>>> detector.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Bill wa4lav
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:11:43 +0100
> From: Stephen Farthing <squirrox at gmail.com>
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 - suitable
> antenna....advice.....questions
> Message-ID:
> <CAAx2MdLGUPhO9CgARWUa6f-_z5tQLO74_PkMZ0k9fRaJs0sViQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have a couple of Trimble T Lassen 2 boards I bought at a Hamfest -
> the guy told me they were left over from a contract he had and were
> brand new. He had a load and i bought a couple for use as a precision
> 1 PPS output for radio stuff. They were packed in static protection.
> When I apply power to both units I can hear the oscillator (12.504
> MHz) on my comms RX. So I am assuming that they work.
>
> I bought what claims to be a Trimble compatible active antenna on
> EBay. I hooked it up to one of the boards and applied power, and put
> the scope on the one pps pin. However after 20 mins (which I assume is
> much longer than the unit requires to get a lock) I see no 1pps trace
> on the screen. :-(
>
> So my working assumption is that the antenna is not working. The
> antenna position is fine as my elderly Garmin GPS2 which must be 12
> years old sees 6 satellites there.
>
> Can anyone recommend a suitable antenna? I have a number of DIY
> designs I can try (Patch, Turnstile) but the Trimble docs say it needs
> an active antenna so I guess I'll have to spend money :-(
>
> While i am on, can anyone suggest a reasonably priced unit that has a
> 1pps output, NMEA and a built in antenna. Because I want to use this
> with an 8 bit embedded system I am probably not going to be able to
> hack one of the many cheap USB dongle GPS's.
>
> Lastly, has anyone found a GPS that will work with an Ipad. What the
> man in the Apple shop failed to tell me was the non 3g model lacked
> the built in GPS :-(
>
> Thanks in advice....
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> --
> Wisdom demands a new orientation of science and technology towards the
> organic, the gentle, the non-violent, the elegant and beautiful. E. F.
> Schumacher
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:31:35 -0400
> From: "jmfranke" <jmfranke at cox.net>
> To: <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions
> Message-ID: <EC471E64A1EF401A8AFBC83E8BC402C3 at Franke>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Do not be too quick to toss out the antennas. Some receivers need the
> antenna power to be connected to a pin on the receiver connector that is
> then internally routed to the antenna.
>
> John WA4WDL
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Stephen Farthing" <squirrox at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:11 PM
> To: <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have a couple of Trimble T Lassen 2 boards I bought at a Hamfest -
>> the guy told me they were left over from a contract he had and were
>> brand new. He had a load and i bought a couple for use as a precision
>> 1 PPS output for radio stuff. They were packed in static protection.
>> When I apply power to both units I can hear the oscillator (12.504
>> MHz) on my comms RX. So I am assuming that they work.
>>
>> I bought what claims to be a Trimble compatible active antenna on
>> EBay. I hooked it up to one of the boards and applied power, and put
>> the scope on the one pps pin. However after 20 mins (which I assume is
>> much longer than the unit requires to get a lock) I see no 1pps trace
>> on the screen. :-(
>>
>> So my working assumption is that the antenna is not working. The
>> antenna position is fine as my elderly Garmin GPS2 which must be 12
>> years old sees 6 satellites there.
>>
>> Can anyone recommend a suitable antenna? I have a number of DIY
>> designs I can try (Patch, Turnstile) but the Trimble docs say it needs
>> an active antenna so I guess I'll have to spend money :-(
>>
>> While i am on, can anyone suggest a reasonably priced unit that has a
>> 1pps output, NMEA and a built in antenna. Because I want to use this
>> with an 8 bit embedded system I am probably not going to be able to
>> hack one of the many cheap USB dongle GPS's.
>>
>> Lastly, has anyone found a GPS that will work with an Ipad. What the
>> man in the Apple shop failed to tell me was the non 3g model lacked
>> the built in GPS :-(
>>
>> Thanks in advice....
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wisdom demands a new orientation of science and technology towards the
>> organic, the gentle, the non-violent, the elegant and beautiful. E. F.
>> Schumacher
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:49:33 +0200
> From: Azelio Boriani <azelio.boriani at screen.it>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions
> Message-ID:
> <CAL8XPmP6k8J7OuwKKiYN1_0gp4YR-90xzt1Vr6NC6hw2dXYMGg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> ...And don't forget that the PPS pulse is very narrow so you have to use a
> 'scope with memory, a digital 'scope or turn the brightness at max.
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM, jmfranke <jmfranke at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Do not be too quick to toss out the antennas. Some receivers need the
>> antenna power to be connected to a pin on the receiver connector that is
>> then internally routed to the antenna.
>>
>> John WA4WDL
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Stephen Farthing" <squirrox at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:11 PM
>> To: <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 -
>> suitableantenna....advice.....questions
>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> I have a couple of Trimble T Lassen 2 boards I bought at a Hamfest -
>>> the guy told me they were left over from a contract he had and were
>>> brand new. He had a load and i bought a couple for use as a precision
>>> 1 PPS output for radio stuff. They were packed in static protection.
>>> When I apply power to both units I can hear the oscillator (12.504
>>> MHz) on my comms RX. So I am assuming that they work.
>>>
>>> I bought what claims to be a Trimble compatible active antenna on
>>> EBay. I hooked it up to one of the boards and applied power, and put
>>> the scope on the one pps pin. However after 20 mins (which I assume is
>>> much longer than the unit requires to get a lock) I see no 1pps trace
>>> on the screen. :-(
>>>
>>> So my working assumption is that the antenna is not working. The
>>> antenna position is fine as my elderly Garmin GPS2 which must be 12
>>> years old sees 6 satellites there.
>>>
>>> Can anyone recommend a suitable antenna? I have a number of DIY
>>> designs I can try (Patch, Turnstile) but the Trimble docs say it needs
>>> an active antenna so I guess I'll have to spend money :-(
>>>
>>> While i am on, can anyone suggest a reasonably priced unit that has a
>>> 1pps output, NMEA and a built in antenna. Because I want to use this
>>> with an 8 bit embedded system I am probably not going to be able to
>>> hack one of the many cheap USB dongle GPS's.
>>>
>>> Lastly, has anyone found a GPS that will work with an Ipad. What the
>>> man in the Apple shop failed to tell me was the non 3g model lacked
>>> the built in GPS :-(
>>>
>>> Thanks in advice....
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wisdom demands a new orientation of science and technology towards the
>>> organic, the gentle, the non-violent, the elegant and beautiful. E. F.
>>> Schumacher
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 09:58:40 -0700
> From: Chris Albertson <albertson.chris at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions
> Message-ID:
> <CABbxVHv_5WSuTdBoH4e7t_Wv7v418uLEJmKxnbZTs54PyWTFVA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I wass fooled by this too. My analog scope does not sync on athe1Hz
> pulse. You have to breadboard something that will detect it, maybe a
> flip flop and then look at the FF's output.
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Azelio Boriani
> <azelio.boriani at screen.it> wrote:
>> ...And don't forget that the PPS pulse is very narrow so you have to use a
>> 'scope with memory, a digital 'scope or turn the brightness at max.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM, jmfranke <jmfranke at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Do not be too quick to toss out the antennas. Some receivers need the
>>> antenna power to be connected to a pin on the receiver connector that is
>>> then internally routed to the antenna.
>>>
>>> John WA4WDL
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Stephen Farthing" <squirrox at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:11 PM
>>> To: <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 -
>>> suitableantenna....advice.....questions
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I have a couple of Trimble T Lassen 2 boards I bought at a Hamfest -
>>>> the guy told me they were left over from a contract he had and were
>>>> brand new. He had a load and i bought a couple for use as a precision
>>>> 1 PPS output for radio stuff. They were packed in static protection.
>>>> When I apply power to both units I can hear the oscillator (12.504
>>>> MHz) on my comms RX. So I am assuming that they work.
>>>>
>>>> I bought what claims to be a Trimble compatible active antenna on
>>>> EBay. I hooked it up to one of the boards and applied power, and put
>>>> the scope on the one pps pin. However after 20 mins (which I assume is
>>>> much longer than the unit requires to get a lock) I see no 1pps trace
>>>> on the screen. :-(
>>>>
>>>> So my working assumption is that the antenna is not working. The
>>>> antenna position is fine as my elderly Garmin GPS2 which must be 12
>>>> years old sees 6 satellites there.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone recommend a suitable antenna? I have a number of DIY
>>>> designs I can try (Patch, Turnstile) but the Trimble docs say it needs
>>>> an active antenna so I guess I'll have to spend money :-(
>>>>
>>>> While i am on, can anyone suggest a reasonably priced unit that has a
>>>> 1pps output, NMEA and a built in antenna. Because I want to use this
>>>> with an 8 bit embedded system I am probably not going to be able to
>>>> hack one of the many cheap USB dongle GPS's.
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, has anyone found a GPS that will work with an Ipad. What the
>>>> man in the Apple shop failed to tell me was the non 3g model lacked
>>>> the built in GPS :-(
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advice....
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Wisdom demands a new orientation of science and technology towards the
>>>> organic, the gentle, the non-violent, the elegant and beautiful. E. F.
>>>> Schumacher
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:05:49 -0400
> From: Bob Bownes <bownes at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 -
> suitableantenna....advice.....questions
> Message-ID:
> <CACsYtUt=AtUz3GqX-iTV4MyRncsFHMtAncJuf9GyaiZ5q60m2g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The pulse from my T-Bolt is on the order of 1uS wide. I captured it on the
> digital scope for posterity and future reference.
>
> http://www.fastbobs.com/pictures/1pps.jpg
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>
>> I wass fooled by this too. My analog scope does not sync on athe1Hz
>> pulse. You have to breadboard something that will detect it, maybe a
>> flip flop and then look at the FF's output.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Azelio Boriani
>> <azelio.boriani at screen.it> wrote:
>> > ...And don't forget that the PPS pulse is very narrow so you have to use
>> a
>> > 'scope with memory, a digital 'scope or turn the brightness at max.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM, jmfranke <jmfranke at cox.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Do not be too quick to toss out the antennas. Some receivers need the
>> >> antenna power to be connected to a pin on the receiver connector that is
>> >> then internally routed to the antenna.
>> >>
>> >> John WA4WDL
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> From: "Stephen Farthing" <squirrox at gmail.com>
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 12:11 PM
>> >> To: <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Trimble T Lassen 2 -
>> >> suitableantenna....advice.....questions
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi Guys,
>> >>>
>> >>> I have a couple of Trimble T Lassen 2 boards I bought at a Hamfest -
>> >>> the guy told me they were left over from a contract he had and were
>> >>> brand new. He had a load and i bought a couple for use as a precision
>> >>> 1 PPS output for radio stuff. They were packed in static protection.
>> >>> When I apply power to both units I can hear the oscillator (12.504
>> >>> MHz) on my comms RX. So I am assuming that they work.
>> >>>
>> >>> I bought what claims to be a Trimble compatible active antenna on
>> >>> EBay. I hooked it up to one of the boards and applied power, and put
>> >>> the scope on the one pps pin. However after 20 mins (which I assume is
>> >>> much longer than the unit requires to get a lock) I see no 1pps trace
>> >>> on the screen. :-(
>> >>>
>> >>> So my working assumption is that the antenna is not working. The
>> >>> antenna position is fine as my elderly Garmin GPS2 which must be 12
>> >>> years old sees 6 satellites there.
>> >>>
>> >>> Can anyone recommend a suitable antenna? I have a number of DIY
>> >>> designs I can try (Patch, Turnstile) but the Trimble docs say it needs
>> >>> an active antenna so I guess I'll have to spend money :-(
>> >>>
>> >>> While i am on, can anyone suggest a reasonably priced unit that has a
>> >>> 1pps output, NMEA and a built in antenna. Because I want to use this
>> >>> with an 8 bit embedded system I am probably not going to be able to
>> >>> hack one of the many cheap USB dongle GPS's.
>> >>>
>> >>> Lastly, has anyone found a GPS that will work with an Ipad. What the
>> >>> man in the Apple shop failed to tell me was the non 3g model lacked
>> >>> the built in GPS :-(
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks in advice....
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Wisdom demands a new orientation of science and technology towards the
>> >>> organic, the gentle, the non-violent, the elegant and beautiful. E. F.
>> >>> Schumacher
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> >>> and follow the instructions there.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> >> To unsubscribe, go to
>> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> >> and follow the instructions there.
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> > To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> > and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Chris Albertson
>> Redondo Beach, California
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts at febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 96, Issue 89
> *****************************************
--
Wisdom demands a new orientation of science and technology towards the
organic, the gentle, the non-violent, the elegant and beautiful. E. F.
Schumacher
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