[time-nuts] Why the fuss?

J. Forster jfor at quikus.com
Fri Sep 28 14:33:45 UTC 2012


You missread what I meant.

I meant that this Al Gore nonsense may soon be coming to a voting booth
near you. And the forces of irrationality can easily mobilize like-minded
dingbats to vote against technology.

Often the Luddites win, on politics, not science or engineering. The
general public is ill equiped to understand, never mind making informed
judgements on, technological issues.

Case in point, the WWVB issue. Many may clamor for 'more accurate clocks',
but show up 10-20 minutes late for meetings. For most all civilian uses, a
clock synchronized to the 60 Hz line is perfectly adequate. Yet the push
is obviously on to destroy the usefulness of WWVB as a Standard of Time
Interval. I see no indication that the XW stuff provides ANYTHING but TOD.

YMMV,

-John

==================



> Unfortunately it's not that easy. Where I lived for a long time I kept
> trying to
> nail down various candidates on their positions on such things like ham
> radio
> antennas and it was maddeningly frustrating. I was actually asked to run
> for
> office at one point, maybe I should of. If nothing else the town would
> have been
> great for hams.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> On 9/27/2012 10:42 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>> Comming soon to a voting booth near you.
>>
>> YMMV,
>>
>> -John
>>
>> ==============
>>
>>
>>
>>> And don't get me started on "Smart Growth", the International Council
>>> for
>>> Local Environmental Initiatives and Agenda 21.
>>>
>>> All designed to move us into dense urban living conditions with fixed
>>> mass
>>> transit and odious rules as to what kind of light bulb we can use, what
>>> kind
>>> of toilet we can install, construction practices and materials, etc...
>>>
>>> A lot of people are decrying this as tinfoil hat bleating but if you
>>> actually read the proposals and observe places where they have been
>>> enacted
>>> (Portland, OR), the result is not what one would expect, quite the
>>> opposite
>>> because nobody wants to live in conditions like that.
>>>
>>> http://www.synthstuff.com/mt/archives/individual/2012/05/all_hail_our_master
>>> mind_overlords_the_iclei.html
>>>
>>> When I moved to where I am now, the specific request to my realtor was
>>> that
>>> there be zero CC&Rs.  I am in unincorporated Whatcom County -- the City
>>> of
>>> Bellingham is a member of ICLEI and talking to local builders, getting
>>> a
>>> permit for anything besides the County's "smart growth" initiatives is
>>> like
>>> pulling teeth.
>>>
>>> Like John said, these get slipstreamed in with popular measures and not
>>> talked about in the press.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
>>>> [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 18:17
>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely!
>>>>
>>>> Often as not, a bunch of new rules and regulations are
>>>> "bundled" with some
>>>> popular measure. The popular measure gets the press, the rest of the
>>>> package gets ignored.
>>>>
>>>> That happens at all levels of government. Purposely so.
>>>>
>>>> -John
>>>>
>>>> ===============
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> HI
>>>>>
>>>>> 
. and if you believe that these sort of restrictions are
>>>> passed one at a
>>>>> time locally.. not so much. The "easy way" is for your
>>>> local government to
>>>>> simply adopt an "up to date" package of rules. Rarely do
>>>> any of those
>>>>> voting understand what in the package. Rarely does the vote
>>>> get anything
>>>>> more than passing notice in the local community.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 8:39 PM, "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are under the impression living in an older, built
>>>> up area will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> a defense against those with a Martha Stewart fetish, you
>>>> are wrong.
>>>>>> -John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, that's what I love about the SF bay area- lots of old
>>>>>>> neighborhoods
>>>>>>> that didn't have all these silly restrictions in place
>>>> when they were
>>>>>>> built.  There are the "usual" CC&Rs, like I can raise
>>>> chickens, but
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> cows, but it doesn't mandate what three colors you can paint your
>>>>>>> house,
>>>>>>> or the window coverings you can have or how long you can
>>>> park your car
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the driveway.  Yes, things can change, but at least it's
>>>> not in place
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the beginning- and we can monitor implementation of any
>>>> changes, at
>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>> in Palo Alto and Sunnyvale (where we have neighborhood groups that
>>>>>>> monitor
>>>>>>> such things, specifically because we like the status quo).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sure some or all of the newer developments do have silly
>>>>>>> restrictions,
>>>>>>> I just would never buy into one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>>>>>>> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:47:15 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Earth to Dave:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sometimes laws and regulations change years after you buy
>>>> a piece of
>>>>>>> property or do something perfectly legal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nobody is safe whenever (Congress, Agency, State Legislature, Town
>>>>>>> Council, governing body, or whatever) is in session.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> YMMV,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===========
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are amoung other reasons why I will never buy a house in a
>>>>>>>> development or with a HOA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Bob Camp" <lists at rtty.us>
>>>>>>>> To: jfor at quikus.com, "Discussion of precise time and frequency
>>>>>>>> measurement" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:36:23 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .... and indeed many of the "likely hiding places" are
>>>> also on the
>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> things you are not supposed to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
>>>> [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of J. Forster
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:20 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vent pipes are not usually 20-30 feet tall.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =============
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which for all intents and purposes means "nothing that
>>>> looks like an
>>>>>>>>> antenna
>>>>>>>>> to John Q. Public". What if your GPS antenna looked
>>>> like a vent pipe?
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> Bird House? It may be difficult to hide a decent HF
>>>> antenna, But, a
>>>>>>>>> 1.5
>>>>>>>>> GHz
>>>>>>>>> antenna can be virtually invisible.
>>>>>>>>> Dale NV8U
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Bob Camp
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:02 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right here in PA for one. You essentially can not buy a
>>>> new house
>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>> there being various conditions written into the title.
>>>> One universal
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> "no antennas". The only exception is for one 19" sat
>>>> dish for TV,
>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>> that's a federal mandate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
>>>> [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com]
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of brent evers
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:57 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: jfor at quikus.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency
>>>>>>>>> measurement
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Zoning, Legal?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brent
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:41 AM, J. Forster
>>>> <jfor at quikus.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Because:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> LORAN-C is gone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not all can use GPS because of siting, horizon,
>>>> zoning, legal, and
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> issues. Not everyone can erect antenna towers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is nothing else, except perhaps WWV or CHU on HF.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -John
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ==================
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I cannot think of a time-nuts WWVB reference requirement
>>>>>>>>>>> that cannot be better satisfied with a GPSDO.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Will  NIST publish a public domain reference circuit?
>>>>>>>>>>> That would allay patent concerns.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R     caf at omen.com ÂÂ
>>>>>>>>>>> www.omen.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
>>>>>>>>>>>    Omen Technology Inc      "The High
>>>> Reliability
>>>>>>>>>>> Software"
>>>>>>>>>>> 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 ÂÂ
>>>> 503-614-0430
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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