[time-nuts] GPS Spoofing

Bob Camp lists at rtty.us
Sat Jul 27 17:28:19 UTC 2013


Hi

Also to the same point - which system is more reliable? You can ask the people who now use GPS how it compares in failure rate to what they used before. I know what kind of answers I get when I ask those questions ….

Bob

On Jul 27, 2013, at 1:10 PM, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris at gmail.com> wrote:

> What is the failure rate?   The number of failures does not matter unless
> we know the total number of attempts.
> 
> Do 1% of the ships that leave a harbor to become involved in an accident or
> is  it more like one in one ten million?
> 
> I'd bet there are tens of thousands of cases of GPS failures where the user
> said to himself "darn, it's broken" turned the thing off and went on his
> way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Robert Atkinson <robert8rpi at yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
> 
>> It seems you can't rely on the human backup. The UK Marine accident
>> Investigation Branch Has recorded numerous accidents due to poor lookout.
>> See
>> http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/KarinSchepersReportWeb.pdf
>> http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/CoastalIsle.pdf
>> http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Beaumont.pdf
>> http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Seagate_ReportWeb.pdf
>> for recent examplesThe other problem is that AIS, a significant
>> anti-collision aid, relies on GPS and is susceptable to spoofing.
>> 
>> Robert G8RPI.
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Chris Albertson <albertson.chris at gmail.com>
>> To: jfor at quikus.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, 27 July 2013, 4:18
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Spoofing
>> 
>> 
>> I boat?  The backup is a competent captain.  He'd see the compass heading
>> move and quickly disengage the autopilot.   I had a boat for years  I'd
>> notice a 5 degree change.  Mine was a sailboat so I'd be more sensitive to
>> heading changes than a power boater but still the human is the backup.
>> 
>> Most autopilots don't directly follow GPS, they use GPS to determine a
>> heading, follow it then use GPS to detect drift and re-compute the heading.
>> the heading would be held by a compass sensor in a low-cost setup or in a
>> larger setup a lazer ring gyro backed up by a compass.     So a spoofed GPS
>> would cause the autopilot to "think" there was a bigger crooswnd or current
>> and make a bigger heading change.
>> 
>> I bet you could hijack a drone not a manned vehicle the pilot is trained to
>> monitor the automation and he'd very quickly turn it off thinking it was
>> broken.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 8:41 AM, J. Forster <jfor at quikus.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Prof. Humphry from Texas just reported being able to spoof GPS in the Med
>>> and take over the nav system of a luxury yacht. He's done this before
>> with
>>> a drone in the US.
>>> 
>>> LORAN as a backup, at least?
>>> 
>>> -John
>>> 
>>> ==============
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Chris Albertson
>> Redondo Beach, California
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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