[time-nuts] Crude Survey Technique (johncroos at aol.com)

johncroos at aol.com johncroos at aol.com
Thu Nov 21 21:02:16 UTC 2013


 My thanks to all that contributed ideas, especially Don's sundial approach. You all have established that if there is an excessively? complex approach I will be sure to think of that first. Let see what else pops up.

-73 john k6iql



 



-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-request <time-nuts-request at febo.com>
To: time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 21, 2013 2:31 pm
Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 112, Issue 68

 
 
 
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Today's Topics: 
 
   1. Re: Off-Topic Question -- German Composition Resistors 
      (Robert LaJeunesse) 
   2. Crude Survey Technique (johncroos at aol.com) 
   3. Re: Crude Survey Technique (Poul-Henning Kamp) 
   4. Re: Crude Survey Technique (Don Latham) 
   5. Re: Crude Survey Technique (Don Latham) 
   6. Re: Crude Survey Technique (J. Forster) 
   7. OT: Putting the Wolfram Language (and Mathematica) on	every 
      Raspberry Pi (David J Taylor) 
   8. Re: Crude Survey Technique (Brian Lloyd) 
 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Message: 1 
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:38:10 -0800 (PST) 
From: Robert LaJeunesse <rlajeunesse at sbcglobal.net> 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
	<time-nuts at febo.com> 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Off-Topic Question -- German Composition 
	Resistors 
Message-ID: 
	<1385059090.6740.YahooMailNeo at web181003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 
 
If it had 4 color bands 2701 you are likely reading it backward. 1072 would be  
10.7K 
 
Bob L. 
 
 
 
>________________________________ 
> From: "Brucekareen at aol.com" <Brucekareen at aol.com> 
>To: time-nuts at febo.com  
>Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 PM 
>Subject: [time-nuts] Off-Topic Question -- German Composition Resistors 
>  
> 
>While tracing out a PC board from an instrument manufactured in Germany, I?  
>quickly discovered the color code on 1/4-watt composition resistors is not?  
>the same as that commonly used in the US? For example, I would measure?  
>about 10,000-ohms across a presumably good resistor that appeared to be marked?  
 
>2700-ohms.? Has/does Germany used a different code for such parts? 
> 
>Bruce, KG6OJI  
>_______________________________________________ 
>time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com 
>To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
>and follow the instructions there. 
> 
> 
> 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Message: 2 
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 13:52:49 -0500 (EST) 
From: johncroos at aol.com 
To: time-nuts at febo.com 
Subject: [time-nuts] Crude Survey Technique 
Message-ID: <8D0B5020292D91E-CC0-4B0E1 at webmail-vm026.sysops.aol.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
 I wish to establish a north south line on my property to an accuracy of +/- 2  
degrees. 
Could this be done by loading a T-bolt, Antenna, Power source, and laptop into  
my 
little red wagon? The idea being to find two positions several hundred ft apart  
where either LH or T-bolt Mon report the same latitude? Will either of these  
programs report to sufficient accuracy? The base line would be 300 ft, though  
more is possible.I realizes that the T-bolt is not a survey device, but I can  
spend several hours fixing each position if required.  
 
All comments appreciated.?? -73 john k6iql 
 
 
  
 
 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Message: 3 
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 19:11:51 +0000 
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk at phk.freebsd.dk> 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
	<time-nuts at febo.com>, 	johncroos at aol.com 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Crude Survey Technique 
Message-ID: <11440.1385061111 at critter.freebsd.dk> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 
 
In message <8D0B5020292D91E-CC0-4B0E1 at webmail-vm026.sysops.aol.com>, johncroos@ 
aol.com writes: 
 
> I wish to establish a north south line on my property to an 
>accuracy of +/- 2 degrees. 
 
First of all, at that level of precision you will have to decide what 
you mean by "north south" ? 
 
Magnetic ?  Geodetic ?  (if so: Which Datum ?)  Meridian ? 
 
> The base line would be 300 ft 
 
So your east-west precision needs to be tan(2)*300ft = 10.5 ft. 
 
I don't think you can do that with a single band GPS. 
 
If you can locate suitable landmarks, you may be able to do with 
the arial photograph on maps.google.com (or similar servce) but 
you need to get coordinates figured out (not trivial!) 
 
I would raise a pole or other marker at one end (N or S), calculate 
when a suitable celestial object crosses your designated line and 
that to triangulate the opposite end. 
 
--  
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 
phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956 
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe     
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. 
 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Message: 4 
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:12:47 -0700 
From: "Don Latham" <djl at montana.com> 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
	<time-nuts at febo.com> 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Crude Survey Technique 
Message-ID: 
	<1eb6792e9b2798e85475bcd2cb5c7607.squirrel at webmail.montana.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 
 
John: for local noon: 
http://education.illinois.edu/noon-project/noontime.html 
 
Don 
johncroos at aol.com 
>  I wish to establish a north south line on my property to an accuracy of 
> +/- 2 degrees. 
> Could this be done by loading a T-bolt, Antenna, Power source, and 
> laptop into my 
> little red wagon? The idea being to find two positions several hundred 
> ft apart where either LH or T-bolt Mon report the same latitude? Will 
> either of these programs report to sufficient accuracy? The base line 
> would be 300 ft, though more is possible.I realizes that the T-bolt is 
> not a survey device, but I can spend several hours fixing each position 
> if required. 
> 
> All comments appreciated.?? -73 john k6iql 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com 
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
> and follow the instructions there. 
> 
> 
 
 
--  
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those 
who have not got it." 
 -George Bernard Shaw 
 
 
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL 
Six Mile Systems LLC 
17850 Six Mile Road 
POB 134 
Huson, MT, 59846 
VOX 406-626-4304 
Skype: buffler2 
www.lightningforensics.com 
www.sixmilesystems.com 
 
 
 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Message: 5 
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:11:03 -0700 
From: "Don Latham" <djl at montana.com> 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
	<time-nuts at febo.com> 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Crude Survey Technique 
Message-ID: 
	<b901bd139c0074c4c59386d550eb7090.squirrel at webmail.montana.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 
 
Lord no, John. No red wagon is needed. Use a pole and the equation of 
time, and a good watch or clock. At local noon, a shadow will be a n-s 
line. If you don't have a decent clock, like your cellphone, put in a 
pole at one end of your line. Near local noon, which depends on where 
you are in the timezone, start sticking pegs in the end of the shadow of 
the pole; the shortest shadow will be the n-s line. Accuracy much better 
than 2 deg. I'm sure other ways will come to you :-) 
Don 
 
johncroos at aol.com 
>  I wish to establish a north south line on my property to an accuracy of 
> +/- 2 degrees. 
> Could this be done by loading a T-bolt, Antenna, Power source, and 
> laptop into my 
> little red wagon? The idea being to find two positions several hundred 
> ft apart where either LH or T-bolt Mon report the same latitude? Will 
> either of these programs report to sufficient accuracy? The base line 
> would be 300 ft, though more is possible.I realizes that the T-bolt is 
> not a survey device, but I can spend several hours fixing each position 
> if required. 
> 
> All comments appreciated.?? -73 john k6iql 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com 
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
> and follow the instructions there. 
> 
> 
 
 
--  
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those 
who have not got it." 
 -George Bernard Shaw 
 
 
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL 
Six Mile Systems LLC 
17850 Six Mile Road 
POB 134 
Huson, MT, 59846 
VOX 406-626-4304 
Skype: buffler2 
www.lightningforensics.com 
www.sixmilesystems.com 
 
 
 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Message: 6 
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 11:11:19 -0800 (PST) 
From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com> 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
	<time-nuts at febo.com> 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Crude Survey Technique 
Message-ID: 
	<49828.12.226.214.5.1385061079.squirrel at popaccts.quikus.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 
 
For something that crude, I'd consider taking a sight on Polaris. If you 
note the time and do the math, you can probably do better than your 
bounds. 
 
Also, there is almost certainly an app somewhere to do the math for you. I 
think tha reeuction info was in Bowditch or the Nautical Almanac. 
 
FWIW, 
 
-John 
 
=================== 
 
 
 
 
 
> In message <8D0B5020292D91E-CC0-4B0E1 at webmail-vm026.sysops.aol.com>, 
> johncroos@ 
> aol.com writes: 
> 
>> I wish to establish a north south line on my property to an 
>>accuracy of +/- 2 degrees. 
> 
> First of all, at that level of precision you will have to decide what 
> you mean by "north south" ? 
> 
> Magnetic ?  Geodetic ?  (if so: Which Datum ?)  Meridian ? 
> 
>> The base line would be 300 ft 
> 
> So your east-west precision needs to be tan(2)*300ft = 10.5 ft. 
> 
> I don't think you can do that with a single band GPS. 
> 
> If you can locate suitable landmarks, you may be able to do with 
> the arial photograph on maps.google.com (or similar servce) but 
> you need to get coordinates figured out (not trivial!) 
> 
> I would raise a pole or other marker at one end (N or S), calculate 
> when a suitable celestial object crosses your designated line and 
> that to triangulate the opposite end. 
> 
> -- 
> Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 
> phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956 
> FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe 
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by 
> incompetence. 
> _______________________________________________ 
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com 
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
> and follow the instructions there. 
> 
> 
 
 
 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Message: 7 
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 19:27:35 -0000 
From: "David J Taylor" <david-taylor at blueyonder.co.uk> 
To: "Time-nuts mailing list" <time-nuts at febo.com> 
Subject: [time-nuts] OT: Putting the Wolfram Language (and 
	Mathematica) on	every Raspberry Pi 
Message-ID: <B255B1361B9848D7A3E18D3783CD6483 at Alta> 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
	reply-type=original 
 
Putting the Wolfram Language (and Mathematica) on every Raspberry Pi 
 
  http://blog.wolfram.com/2013/11/21/putting-the-wolfram-language-and-mathematica-on-every-raspberry-pi/ 
 
and it's free. 
 
Cheers, 
David 
--  
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements 
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu 
Email: david-taylor at blueyonder.co.uk  
 
 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Message: 8 
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 13:04:46 -0600 
From: Brian Lloyd <brian at lloyd.com> 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
	<time-nuts at febo.com> 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Crude Survey Technique 
Message-ID: 
	<CAE3hgTd3ZPtmnjkUW=JU_a-xoWv+jiZPKmPM7Q5Z475xChfFig at mail.gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 
 
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 12:52 PM, <johncroos at aol.com> wrote: 
 
>  I wish to establish a north south line on my property to an accuracy of 
> +/- 2 degrees. 
> Could this be done by loading a T-bolt, Antenna, Power source, and laptop 
> into my 
> little red wagon? The idea being to find two positions several hundred ft 
> apart where either LH or T-bolt Mon report the same latitude? Will either 
> of these programs report to sufficient accuracy? The base line would be 300 
> ft, though more is possible.I realizes that the T-bolt is not a survey 
> device, but I can spend several hours fixing each position if required. 
> 
 
True north or magnetic north? In any case, a good lensatic compass and 
knowing your magnetic variation should easily get you to within 2 degrees 
and is a lot easier than doing a survey with your GPS. 
 
 
--  
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 
706 Flightline Drive 
Spring Branch, TX 78070 
brian at lloyd.com 
+1.916.877.5067 
 
 
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