[time-nuts] GPS W/10KHz

Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths at xtra.co.nz
Tue Feb 11 02:18:17 UTC 2014


Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> Bjorn,
>
>    
>>> All I was pointing out is that at a higher output frequency, like
>>> 10 kpps, the frequency of the quantization saw tooth error will
>>> almost always be much higher as well.  There's no need for the digital
>>> correction since averaging over a relatively short period, like in
>>> the loop filter of an appropriate analog PLL, will almost always be
>>> sufficient to smooth the sawtooth.
>>>        
>> The sawtooth correction is the difference between where the receiver would
>> wish to place the edge and where its known limited resolution electronics
>> lets it put the edge.
>>      
> Yes, exactly.  The range of the error in edge placement will be a constant
> related to (probably equal to) the period of the internal clock it is using
> to generate the edges.  For an LEA-6T this is 21 ns so, assuming it rounds
> off, any edge it places will be in error by +/- 10.5 ns.
>
>    
>> The receiver wish is based on the timesolution from the last measurement.
>> In the Jupiter this is done at 1Hz maximum. The sawtooth correction will
>> apply the same for all 10k (pos or neg) edges in the 10kHz signal during
>> that one second.
>>      
> Yes, this is true.  Note, however, that the time solution produces not
> only a phase error of the receiver's internal clock with respect to GPS
> but also the frequency error of the receiver's clock with respect to GPS.
> More than this, since the time solution takes time to compute it will be
> telling the receiver what the phase error was at some point in the past
> rather than what it is now, let alone what it will at the point in the
> future when you want to assert a 1 pps signal.  It can place that future
> edge because it knows the actual frequency of its clock with some precision
> from the time solution, and that plus knowing a phase offset at some past
> time is sufficient to allow it to extrapolate to a future edge placement.
> With an LEA-6T the precision of the edge placement will be +/- (10.5 +
> epsilon) ns, with the "epsilon" occurring because it is extrapolating a
> past measurement to place a future edge.
>
> Note, however, that the rate at which it can compute time solutions doesn't
> change any of this very much.  The fact that an LEA-6 can compute 5 solutions
> per second rather than just one will at best just make "epsilon" a bit
> smaller, and this matters not at all since "epsilon" should be pretty small
> already.  If the receiver instead only computed a time solution once every
> 3 seconds it also wouldn't make a difference, it could still place a 1 pps
> edge every second by extrapolating from whatever the last solution was
> that it managed to complete.  More than this, if you told the receiver to
> place 10,000 edges per second instead of just 1, the placement error of
> each one of those edges, individually, would still be +/- (10.5 + epsilon) ns.
>
> The rate at which the receiver computes new solutions has about "epsilon"
> to do with the precision of edge placement.  The sawtooth doesn't come from
> the epsilon, it comes from the +/- 10.5 ns.
>
>    
>> There are effects that are not easily filtered away in the analog domain.
>> See the archives and
>>
>>     http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/m12/sawtooth.htm
>>      
> This is good.  Notice the amplitude and the frequency of those sawtooths.
> The amplitude is the period of the internal clock placing the edges, i.e.
> 21 ns for an LEA-6T and what looks like>30 ns for the receiver above.
>
> Then there's the frequency.  It varies widely but the highest frequency
> seen, in the 4th graph down, looks to be about 0.5 Hz.  It isn't an
> accident that there is no higher frequency, and  I'll just assert
> that this maximum frequency has nothing to do with the time solution
> update rate of the receiver.
Nonsense, it has everything to do with the time solution update rate as 
long as the output signal frequency is greater than or equal to the 
update rate.
Such folding only occurs when the output signal frequency is less than 
the update rate.
>    It would be not change if you looked at
> the 1 pps output of a 5-update-per-second LEA-6.  Instead the highest
> sawtooth frequency is 0.5 Hz because he's looking at a 1 pps output,
> getting one sample per second, and if you sample a signal at one sample
> per second then the frequencies you see in the samples are always going
> to be in the range 0-0.5 Hz.  Essentially this is integrating a "beat"
> frequency between the receiver's oscillator and GPS time, which could be
> very high in frequency, but by sampling at 1 pps the difference, whatever
> it is, gets folded into the 0-0.5 Hz Nyquist bandwidth.  The low frequency
> of the sawtooth observed at 1 pps makes it a problem for analog filters.
>
> All I'm pointing out, then, is that if you increase the pulse rate output
> by the receiver from 1 pps to 10 kpps you will still get a sawtooth, like
> 1 pps, and the amplitude of the sawtooth will be unchanged from 1 pps, but
> the frequency of the sawtooth won't be limited to 0-0.5 Hz and will instead be
> folded into the 10 kpps Nyquist bandwidth of 0 - 5 kHz.  Unless you are
> very unlucky this will give you the same sawtooth error at a much higher
> frequency, making it much more amenable to analog domain filtering.
>
>    
Thats only true if the GPS timing error is recalculated for each edge of 
the 10kpps signal.
This certainly doesn't happen in the Jupiter GPS receivers.
> Dennis Ferguson
>
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>    
Bruce



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