[time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions

GandalfG8 at aol.com GandalfG8 at aol.com
Fri Nov 7 22:12:15 UTC 2014


Ah, OK, so you didn't see all I described after all as you didn't  get to 
the Communication Established page, that's what I couldn't  understand.
 
Probably best just to wait then and see how the replacements behave,  but 
if it was me I'd perhaps be rather cautious about blaming the kit that does  
seem to be sending and receiving signals and maybe looking to a more  
straightforward interface for now without the virtual machine  involved.
I'm not saying that is the problem, but I'm a great believer in eliminating 
 any unknowns and keeping things as basic as possible, especially where 
hardware  interfacing under later versions of Windows is concerned.
Old pentium laptops are two a penny now, and having a Win98 or XP  test bed 
with real serial ports can be very useful at times.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 07/11/2014 21:46:40 GMT Standard Time, aroby at antamy.com  
writes:

I have  both versions of SatStat (the HP and the Symmetricon).  Both are 
set for  COM1 9660, 8, n, 1.  Both are running in an XP VM.  I have tested  
the virtualized to physical COM1 connection using a terminal program and a  
scope, so I know that works.  When I select Port Open, I just get "Trying  to 
establish communication". I never see the SatStat info page.

If I  use the terminal program under XP or on the Win7 host, I can send 
*IDN?  ,  :SYST:STAT? etc. but never get a response.  Although I can see a  
response by scoping the cable - it peaks around 4.5v, and is quite  noisy.  My 
suspicion is that it's the noise that is causing the  trouble.   AECI are 
sending me replacement units, but if you have  any ideas of other things to 
try, let me  know

Thanks

ANthony

-----Original Message-----
From:  time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of 
GandalfG8--- via  time-nuts
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 2:11 PM
To:  time-nuts at febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived  today several 
questions

When you say, all of that is what you  see...........

Do you mean you go through the SatStat start sequence  and you see the 
SatStat info page?

If so what happens then, or does it  in fact stop earlier than  that?

Regards

Nigel
GM8PZR



In a message dated  07/11/2014 19:55:16 GMT Standard Time, aroby at antamy.com
writes:

Yes,  all  of that is the same as my setup and what I see.  As I said, I  
can send  data to the boxes from a terminal program and see it coming  back 
by 
scoping  the line.   I may return the units and get  a different pair.   It 
just seems odd that both units behave in  this way.

-----Original  Message-----
From: time-nuts  [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf  Of
GandalfG8--- via  time-nuts
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 11:39  AM
To:  time-nuts at febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO   arrived today several 
questions

Hi Anthony,

Are you sure  you've  got the COM port set up correctly?

Should be 9600 baud, 8  data bits, 1  stop bit, No parity, No flow  control

In  SatStat, for example, you  should get a message on startup that   
says....
To Start: Select port  Open on the CommPort Menu...

If  you do this, assuming the correct  settings, it should bring up a  
message....
Communication Established,  Please Wait

Then the  SatStat Info page should open.

This is with  the Symmetricom  Windows version of SatStat, version 5, do 
you see any of this  when you  try to start it?

Regards

Nigel
GM8PZR


In  a  message dated 07/11/2014 17:14:54 GMT Standard Time,   
aroby at antamy.com
writes:

My  frustration with getting  anything  out of the Diag port onto a PC 
continues.  I received an  RS422 to USB  cable and also an RS422 to RS232 
convertor but neither of  them has given me  any success, on either box.  I  can 
see data  coming out of the port  on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line,   
but 
cannot get a terminal  program, SatStat or Z38XX to display  anything.   
It's
crazy.

Anthony

-----Original  Message-----
From:   time-nuts  [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob  
Camp
Sent:   Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM
To:  GandalfG8 at aol.com; Discussion  of  precise time and frequency 
measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts]  Lucent  KS-24361 GPSDO arrived  today several  
questions

Hi

Well, it took  me a *long* time  to get  around to the command line on 
these 
boxes. For what  ever  reason  (yes one could guess  ? ) I stayed focused 
on 
finding  a  3810/11/12  manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 
manual.  

Now  the  question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the  board. If it 
??s 
jumpers  (might not be) one of them could enable  bi-directional  
communication.

Thanks for checking this to see  that it works on  at  least one other box.

Bob

> On  Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03  AM,  GandalfG8--- via  time-nuts
<time-nuts at febo.com>  wrote:
> 
>  Hi  Bob
> 
> Very many thanks for the  prod re the  Diagnostic  port.
> 
> Considering the other GPS  kit I  talk to using  Hyperterminal and the 
> like, often because   there's no other  option, I don't know why it's 
> never  occurred  to me to do the  same with the Z3801As and now   
these......
>  and any rude  suggestions as to why will  just be politely   ignored:-)
> 
>  It's not that I  don't have access to the  command set, but  I suspect  
>  that twelve years or so ago,  totally green when it came to    GPSDOs 
and 
> with my first  Z3801A to play with, I was just  grateful to  find 
> SatStat, and  eventually some nice  commercial options, and  never gave 
> it  a  thought  after that, silly me.
> 
>  Anyway, I've just  switched  my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal  and 
> tried the   :SYST:STAT? command for starters.
> That's obviously  what  SatStat  uses to generate it's front page, 
> although it is   continuously  updated with SatStat, and we do have 
> contact,  and   something  else to play with:-)
> 
>  Regards
>  
>  Nigel
> GM8PZR
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 
> In a  message dated 07/11/2014  00:07:56 GMT  Standard Time, 
>  kb8tq at n1k.org
> writes:
>   
> Hi
> 
> Ok, I  got to spend a little quality time  with my  pair  today. I 
>  mostly poked at the Diag port  with a terminal  program.
> 
>  Both  of the units  seem talk over the Diag port  regardless of the  
> mode they  are in  (master / slave / fault ).  Both respond  to a 
>  sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI  commands (= not all   commands  work). There 
> are a few enhancements where a query    to  a  ??node ?? gives a reply 
> (which it
should not  if  it ??s  ??node  only ??
> ). All of it  works ok  at 9600  baud 8N1. All of it comes  back with an 
> error  message  (E-xxx)  after a valid command  response. It may not  
> like  the terminal program sending  cr/lf or   something like that.
>  
> By far the most useful thing to  type  is  :SYST:STAT?  
> That executes the system:status  request and  gives you a  nice  full 
> screen of  information. It shows you about  95%  of the useful 
>  information  all on one page. About the only   major thing  missing is 
> the DAC value. That ??s  available  with   another command out of the
> Z3801 list. It does take a while   to  compose and transmit the screen, 
> so it ??s not the best  way  to to  this forever  and ever.
> 
> The data  from the  request is the  same on both boxes. Same  everything  
> except  one shows as standby  etc. The interesting details  are things 
>  like elevation mask and  cable delay. Why  interesting? You can set  
> them with  discrete   commands. You can also query the data  with the 
> same commands  to  make  sure the box  ??took  ?? what you sent.
>  
> This  allows experimentation  with  changing the  elevation mask on each  
> box (or just  simply doing a  discrete query  for the mask on each box).
> The  Ref-0 /  slave will happily change things around  with  discrete   
> commands. None of them are reflected in the :SYST:STAT?    listing  on 
> the Ref-0 or Ref-1. When you look at the Ref-1  /  gps  box, it ??s 
> discrete  query information  matches the  :SYST:STAT?  screen on both 
> boxes. When  you  change things  on the Ref-1 box  both screens follow  
> that
data.
>  
>  ?? ?? ?? ??  ??
>  
> When you pull the antenna  on the gps box, it  immediately   (almost) 
> goes into gps  fault led  flashing mode. The slave box happily  sits 
> there for a   while (say a minute) with it ??s gps led  saying all is 
>  well.  When  you plug the antenna back in, the  process is  reversed.  
> The gps box goes out of  flash mode right   away. The led  goes out in a 
bit.
> The led on the slave  box  does  not  follow for a minute or so.
>  
>  ?? ?? ?? ?? ??
>   
> All of this  suggests  to me that the Ref-0 / slave does not  talk  back  
> to the other box via serial.  It also suggests  to me  that  all it
>  ??sees ?? from the Ref-1/gps box are   the   duplicates of the serial 
> string out of the  Motorola  gps module. The  Ref-0 just  figures out 
>  what ??s happening  by watching those  strings as they roll   by.
> 
> Hope  that makes sense ?  .
>  
>  ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??
>  
> If that ??s all   true, it  should be  ??easy ?? to put  dummy gps 
>  sentences  into the Ref-0 interface port and  a  pps from  something 
> else.  Once it sees stuff that it likes, it  will  start  locking up to  
> that pps. Cheap micro and just   about any modern gps = fancy new  
> GPSDO. Quick / easy / not  much  work. A little more complex if you  
> decide to   translate  sawtooth data. That of course assumes these boxes
do   anything  with  sawtooth ...
> 
> Bob
>  
>  
>  
> 
>> On Nov 6, 2014, at 7:52  AM,  GandalfG8---  via  time-nuts
>  <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
>>   
>> Hi  Bob
>> 
>> I view the master/slave  situation  the  same way you do,  but only
>  commented
>>  because  Lucent effectively sets things up   the other way  round so  
>> just wanted to be sure which way  Paul   was considering it.
>>  
>> As regards, the   "faking", yes, a single  15 way plug  containing just  
>>  a
> link
>> and a resistor  is  exactly  what I use  now.
>> 
>> I realise the  RS422  fudge isn't ideal  but  certainly very handy for  
>> some quick   tests.
>> 
>> I've got  two or three RS422 PCI interfaces  but  hadn't previously had  
>> any
> 
>> spare  slots, now  I've got a  couple of lovely Magma 13 way PCI   
>> expansion
>  units
>> but need to hack them about  so the ports  are at  the  front.
>> Whoever decided rack  mount PC kit  should  be built with all  the
>  connections
>>  at the rear must  have been really nuts, and  it  was too long  ago  to 
>> use  "corridors" of racks  as a  viable  excuse, someone somewhere just 
>> fitted
>   ears to
>> desk top style  cases and  left the rest of  us  to get on with  it..
>> 
>>  One  of  the best  things I ever did was to buy a pair of "back to
front"   
>> rackmount PC cases with all ports and cards   available at  the front,
> trouble is
>> now I want  everything  else to  match, and most test  gear has just  
>> the
>  same
>>  issues!
>>  
>> All good fun,   and certainly never a  dull  moment:-)
>> 
>>  Regards
>>  
>>  Nigel
>> GM8PZR
>>  
>>  
>> 
>  
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