[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...

Tue Nov 18 20:21:58 UTC 2014

Don - rather than repeat info that has been posted over the course of the past 3-4 weeks, suggest you start here https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2014-October/087274.html

Anthony

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Murray via time-nuts
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:10 PM
To: time-nuts at febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...

TNX Paul and Anthony...

More questions...   ;-)

I see that the REF1 type unit outputs 15MHz...

The REF0 unit has both 15MHz and 10MHz...

So, if I am going to use GPS, I need REF1, but it only does  15MHz out, and I need 10MHz for my stuff...  so how do REF1 and REF0  interface??
Or does it work that way??

TNX guys!!

73
Don
W4WJ

In a message dated 11/18/2014 12:28:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, paulswedb at gmail.com writes:

In the  picture its the top unit ref1 and its the left hand TNC and it does power  the antenna.
If no antenna you need to tie a resistor to ground on the tnc  to fake it out.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at  11:49 AM, Anthony Roby <aroby at antamy.com> wrote:

> If you  search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set 
> of  photos I posted.  This one  
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the  
> front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>
>  Anthony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts  [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don 
> Murray via  time-nuts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
> To:  time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent  KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom 
> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>
>  Hello all...
>
> Just getting up to speed on the  KS-24361...
>
> My stupid question (s)...
>
> Where  does the GPS antenna connect??
>
> Does the GPS antenna port power  the antenna?
>
> Need a replacement for my dead HP  Z3816A...   ;-(
>
>  TIA...
>
>
>
> 73
> Don
>  W4WJ
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52  A.M. Central Standard Time, 
> mark at alignedsolutions.com  writes:
>
> One of  my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811  ocxo iirc) also performs
> similarly at  times to the 58503A  mentioned by Said.   From an adev
> perspective
>   it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so   
iirc.)
>  At times though the output seems to "jump" in   frequency.   My other 
Z3805
> from the same source doesn't  work as  well.
>
> None of the 10811's in my various pieces  of test gear (some of  which 
> I basically purchased to get the  10811's) worked all that well from 
> an
Adev
> perspective.  I  used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction  
> site
with
>  10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices.     At  least I
> still have
> a nice collection of frequency  counters.
>
>
> Sent  from my iPad
>
> On  2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts   
<time-nuts at febo.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> >  Correct on all counts  Bob.
> >
> > My two 58503A units  from China are great for both ADEV  and PN
> measurements, better  than anything else I have as a combo (I have  Wenzel
> ULNs for  even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable  ADEV).   I
> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP   unit.
> >
> > Those 10811s just rule.
> >
>  > In fact my  only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related  
> small spurs you can see  in the plots...
> >
>  > Bye,
> > Said
> >
> > Sent From   iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp   <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
>  >>
> >> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style  package put 
> >> around
> it - right?
>  >>
> >> If so, it might / should   have a 10811 in  it rather than an MTI OCXO.
> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at   100 Hz. That is much better than the
> noise floor that the MTI ??s seem  to  produce at 100 Hz. About the 
> only other GPSDO OCXO that gets  to that level is  the one in the 
> original
TBolts
> . There you very  much have to deal with spurs.  That make the noise 
> floor of  limited use in a practical system.
> >>
> >>  Bob
> >>
> >>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM,   SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi   Bob,
> >>>
> >>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten,  no doubt.  The 15MHz plot is quite 
> >>> good
> till  about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty  rotten too.
>  >>>
> >>> Here is one of my 58503A units  (using  the 10811 OCXO) as a
> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA  (this  plot was actually 
> done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since  that unit actually  has less 
> noise and spurs than the 58503A we  can simply use it as the reference  
> for this purpose).
>  >>>
> >>> The good news is that  getting the  close-in phase noise to be 
> >>> good is
> very hard to  do and the unit  delivers that out-of-the box already.
> Filtering  out the noise and spurs above  40Hz offset is pretty easy 
> to
do.
>  It should be fairly straight forward to  cobble up a small PN filter  
> for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs  above 40Hz  offset.
> >>>
> >>> bye,
>  >>>  Said
> >>>
> >>> In a message  dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46  Pacific Standard Time,
> kb8tq at n1k.org  writes:
> >>>  Hi
> >>>
>  >>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz.  There are a few  spurs, 
> and
> >>> an
> very real hump out at the likely  frequency of  the Lucent switcher.  
> The
> 15 MHz is pretty  clean compared to most /all of  the other units I 
> ??ve seen on  the surplus market.
> >>>
> >>> I would not  multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband  multiplier.
>  >>> I
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a  rational  bandwidth. 
> You will beat the noise on the output with a  fairly simple VHF VCXO  
> past 100 Hz.
> No reason to have a  bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
> >>>
>  >>> Math:
> >>>
> >>> 15  MHz to  150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
> >>>
>  >>>  -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120  dbc/Hz
> >>>
> >>> You can get numbers better  than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset  out 
> >>> of a
>  number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to  
> work fine for him.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
>  >>>
> >>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>  >>
> >   _______________________________________________
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