[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...
pch.tns
pch.tns at gmail.com
Tue Nov 18 20:20:49 UTC 2014
Hi all
The easiest setup to get 10MHz out of the15MHz is using a SiLabs5351C and program it 15MHz in and 10MHz out. You have 8 outputs you can define.
Pics of my setup here <https://www.dropbox.com/s/h5qrxwfb3fkshen/IMG_1465.JPG?dl=0>and here <https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvg6vebxih8ih2s/IMG_1466.jpg?dl=0>. I am using this for all my SDR’s and conventional Rx/Tx with 10 MHz ref inputs. Works great.
Rgds
Peter, HB9DQY
> On 18 Nov 2014, at 15:09, Don Murray via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
>
> TNX Paul and Anthony...
>
> More questions... ;-)
>
> I see that the REF1 type unit outputs 15MHz...
>
> The REF0 unit has both 15MHz and 10MHz...
>
> So, if I am going to use GPS, I need REF1, but it only does 15MHz out,
> and I need 10MHz for my stuff... so how do REF1 and REF0 interface??
> Or does it work that way??
>
> TNX guys!!
>
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 12:28:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> paulswedb at gmail.com writes:
>
> In the picture its the top unit ref1 and its the left hand TNC and it does
> power the antenna.
> If no antenna you need to tie a resistor to ground on the tnc to fake it
> out.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Anthony Roby <aroby at antamy.com> wrote:
>
>> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of
>> photos I posted. This one
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the
>> front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
>> Murray via time-nuts
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
>> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>>
>> Hello all...
>>
>> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>>
>> My stupid question (s)...
>>
>> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
>>
>> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
>>
>> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
>>
>> TIA...
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Don
>> W4WJ
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>> mark at alignedsolutions.com writes:
>>
>> One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
>> similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev
>> perspective
>> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so
> iirc.)
>> At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other
> Z3805
>> from the same source doesn't work as well.
>>
>> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
>> basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an
> Adev
>> perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site
> with
>> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I
>> still have
>> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts
> <time-nuts at febo.com
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Correct on all counts Bob.
>>>
>>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
>> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel
>> ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I
>> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
>>>
>>> Those 10811s just rule.
>>>
>>> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
>> spurs you can see in the plots...
>>>
>>> Bye,
>>> Said
>>>
>>> Sent From iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
>>>> around
>> it - right?
>>>>
>>>> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
>> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
>> noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only
>> other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original
> TBolts
>> . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor
>> of limited use in a practical system.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>
>>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
>>>>> good
>> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
>> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done
>> to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and
>> spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this
>> purpose).
>>>>>
>>>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
>>>>> is
>> very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already.
>> Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to
> do.
>> It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for
>> those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
>>>>>
>>>>> bye,
>>>>> Said
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
>> kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
>>>>> an
>> very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The
>> 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve
>> seen on the surplus market.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
>>>>> I
>> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
>> will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100
>> Hz.
>> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>>>
>>>>> Math:
>>>>>
>>>>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>>
>>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>>>
>>>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
>>>>> a
>> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
>> work fine for him.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>>>
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