[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812

Tue Nov 18 22:57:30 UTC 2014

Hi

The GPS antennal goes into the TNC connector on the left hand side of the front panel. The box sources +5V power for an antenna. 

Bob

> On Nov 18, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Don Murray via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all...
> 
> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
> 
> My stupid question (s)...
> 
> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
> 
> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
> 
> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A...   ;-(
> 
> TIA...
> 
> 
> 
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
> mark at alignedsolutions.com writes:
> 
> One of  my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs 
> similarly at  times to the 58503A mentioned by Said.   From an adev perspective 
> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so  iirc.) 
> At times though the output seems to "jump" in  frequency.   My other Z3805 
> from the same source doesn't work as  well.
> 
> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of  which I 
> basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an  Adev 
> perspective.  I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction  site with 
> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices.     At least I still have 
> a nice collection of frequency counters.
> 
> 
> Sent  from my iPad
> 
> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts  <time-nuts at febo.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Correct on all counts  Bob.
>> 
>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV  and PN 
> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have  Wenzel ULNs for 
> even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable  ADEV).  I also have a 
> costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP  unit.
>> 
>> Those 10811s just rule.
>> 
>> In fact my  only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small 
> spurs you can see  in the plots...
>> 
>> Bye,
>> Said
>> 
>> Sent From  iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp  <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put  around 
> it - right?
>>> 
>>> If so, it might / should   have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. 
> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at  100 Hz. That is much better than the 
> noise floor that the MTI’s seem to  produce at 100 Hz. About the only other 
> GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is  the one in the original TBolts . There 
> you very much have to deal with spurs.  That make the noise floor of limited 
> use in a practical system. 
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM,  SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi  Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt.  The 15MHz plot is quite good 
> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty  rotten too.
>>>> 
>>>> Here is one of my 58503A units  (using the 10811 OCXO) as a 
> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this  plot was actually done to show the 
> DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually  has less noise and spurs than the 
> 58503A we can simply use it as the reference  for this purpose).
>>>> 
>>>> The good news is that  getting the close-in phase noise to be good is 
> very hard to do and the unit  delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering 
> out the noise and spurs above  40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should 
> be fairly straight forward to  cobble up a small PN filter for those units 
> to get rid of the noise and spurs  above 40Hz offset.
>>>> 
>>>> bye,
>>>> Said
>>>> 
>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46  Pacific Standard Time, 
> kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz.  There are a few spurs, and an 
> very real hump out at the likely frequency of  the Lucent switcher.  The 15 
> MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of  the other units I’ve seen on the 
> surplus market. 
>>>> 
>>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband  multiplier. I 
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational  bandwidth. You 
> will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO  past 100 Hz. 
> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.  
>>>> 
>>>> Math:
>>>> 
>>>> 15  MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>> 
>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>> 
>>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset  out of a 
> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to  work 
> fine for him. 
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>> 
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