[time-nuts] update on LTE-Lite
SAIDJACK at aol.com
SAIDJACK at aol.com
Mon Nov 24 19:40:08 UTC 2014
So to verify the initial results we saw we tested another 10MHz DIP-14 unit
on a different ADEV test-set, and the results are similar.
See the attached ADEV plot of a random unit.
This was actually the synthesized output from the board set to 20MHz from
the 10MHz TCXO, then fed through a divide-by-2 CMOS circuit utilized as a 50
Ohms buffer then anaylzed by our TSC5125A.
It shows that the synthesizer output nicely follows the TCXO, and it shows
the ADEV performance of the DIP-14 TCXO.
bye,
Said
In a message dated 11/22/2014 18:23:35 Pacific Standard Time,
time-nuts at febo.com writes:
Nigel,
I would not worry too much about the RTV, more about damaging the nice
TCXO. That part is by far the most expensive and valuable component on the
boards. It's not your good old $10 style TCXO..
We were not aware and did not know of the beat frequency causing some
spurs until the day I posted my findings and suggestions, but there is an
easy
way around the issue as I had discussed at that time as well.
The easiest way to avoid the beat frequency spurs when using an external
oscillator is to use a splitter with high isolation on the RF output of
the
oscillator, and to put an LC filter on the EFC pin of that oscillator. One
(CMOS compatible) output of the splitter goes to the LTE-Lite MMCX
connector, the other output can be used for your circuitry or instruments
etc.
Depending on the isolation capability of the splitter I bet there won't be
anything coming through. Instead of a passive splitter a simple CMOS gate
as a buffer also provides massive amounts of isolation from the 20MHz RF
floating around the LTE Lite board.
In either way the spurs are quite low if I remember correctly, so even a
passive splitter with 40dB or so isolation will likely push the spurs
below
the noise floor of the oscillator I would think. The secondary path into
the
OCXO could be through the EFC output, and that can be easily filtered out
by using a small RC or LC filter, say 22uH into a 100nF cap mounted onto
the OCXO EFC pin. That should squelch any RF on the EFC line. Since most
OCXOs have an RC filter built into the EFC pin anyways (usually a 30K
Ohms or
higher series resistor into the capacitance of the varactor diode at the
least) I don't think much of the 20MHz would come through the EFC line,
most
of it probably through the RF pin.
There is a 220 Ohms series resistor on the EFC output of the LTE-Lite
anyways, so just putting a 10nF to ground on the OCXO EFC pin would
already
create a low pass filter with a 70KHz cut off frequency, so that single
cap by
itself may be sufficient already to get rid of any 20MHz RF floating
around
the EFC line. Definitely use a shielded coax cable for the EFC line
though, not just a simple wire.
On the 10MHz boards the DIP-14 TCXO is soldered onto the board for best
performance and mechanical stability, but since it only has four pins in a
DIP-14 configuration it is very easily removed from the PCB with a proper
solder-iron if that is desired.
Bye,
Said
Begin forwarded message:
Cc: _time-nuts at febo.com_ (mailto:time-nuts at febo.com)
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] update on LTE-Lite
Reply-To: _GandalfG8 at aol.com_ (mailto:GandalfG8 at aol.com) , Discussion of
precise time and frequency measurement <_time-nuts at febo.com_
(mailto:time-nuts at febo.com) >
Hi Said,
Many thanks for your reply.
I'd realised that R2 and R3 were in the paths of alternative power feeds
but had managed to convince myself that both resistors were shown to be
fitted in your auction photos, although I can now see quite clearly that
whilst
R2 is fitted, R3 isn't, whoops:-)
I was hoping that removing the TXCO might be reasonably straightforward,
it
was after all your suggestion:-), but am now concerned that the RTV might
have flowed under any components perhaps not fully seated and didn't
want
to take the risk of damaging anything. I'd also hoped it might prove
possible to remove the onboard TCXO power by breaking one of the tracks
on
the
LTE-Lite module itself but it sounds like that might have been a bit too
optimistic.
Whilst I'm pretty sure I would have stuck with the 20MHz version anyway,
the initial enthusiastic rush did mean nearly 40 of us had already
bought
them before your comments regarding the harmonic mixing and the
suggestion to
use the 19.2MHz version reached the list, so to some extent at least
that
might help explain the numbers:-)
Anyway, thanks very much again for making these available, I certainly
don't see this as a significant issue so it's time to dive in and worry
about
the finer details later.
Just out of interest, on the 10MHz version without the onboard TCXO,
did
the DIL oscillator end up socketed or soldered?
Regards
Nigel
GM8PZR
In a message dated 22/11/2014 18:01:18 GMT Standard Time,
_saidjack at jackson-labs.com_ (mailto:saidjack at jackson-labs.com) writes:
Nigel,
CC'ing time nuts..
R2 and R3 are stuffing options, see the schematics in the user manual.
Typically you don't have to solder anything. The default is set for the
low-noise 3.0V to be fed to the DIP-14 tcxo for best performance.
On removing the SMT Tcxo, this is not easy, but possible with a heat gun.
Its easy to melt the adjacent switches though when doing that. The RTV
over
it should just peel off, but we have not tried that yet. There is no way
to
just remove power to the internal Tcxo unfortunately.
This is why I had suggested the 19.2MHz version for people who want to
use
the external oscillator option, because that won't beat with your
oscillator close-in. I was a bit surprised that so few of those 19.2MHz
units sold
compared to the significant numbers for 10/20MHz units. In either case I
think the resulting beat spurs are typically lower than many other GPSDOs
and
oscillators have in their spurs, the CSAC with its spurs comes to mind..
Hope that helps,
Said
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 22, 2014, at 6:08, __GandalfG8 at aol.com_ (mailto:GandalfG8 at aol.com)
_
(mailto:GandalfG8 at aol.com)
wrote:
Hi Said,
Sorry to bother you again, I'm not sure is this is an oversight or
deliberate but I've just noticed that R2 has not been fitted to my
evaluation
board.
I'm a bit concerned as this will affect power to the external oscillator
and R2 would be difficult to fit now that SW2 is installed.
I may have missed this if it was mentioned on the Time-Nuts list but
there's a lot there to look through so thought it best to ask you
direct.
Regards
Nigel
GM8PZR
In a message dated 30/10/2014 23:30:40 GMT Standard Time,
__saidjack at jackson-labs.com_ (mailto:saidjack at jackson-labs.com) _
(mailto:saidjack at jackson-labs.com) writes:
Hello everyone,
We wanted to give you an interim update on the LTE-Lite Evaluation kit
builds. We are making good progress on the assembly. We are expecting to
ship
within the announced time frame, and are guiding the factory on a daily
basis.
We are using the time to improve the firmware and have made some
upgrades
with the help and efforts of a very well-known Time Nut (thanks much!)
who
I am certain will identify himself in due time. This development
activity
has revealed a sensitivity in the GPS receiver: the unit should not be
changed from mobile mode to Position Hold (Timing) mode ROM/Flash
firmware or
vice versa while power is enabled, this could lead to Flash memory
corruption. We are thus shipping the unit with a solder jumper that will
require
soldering-in two pins to get out of Timing mode and into mobile mode so
as to
avoid the possibility of a user accidentally inserting a jumper with
power
supplied to the unit, which could then corrupt the GPS Flash memory. We
have
also been able to upgrade the GPS Flash firmware in close cooperation
with
the vendor of the GPS receiver to make it more optimal for operation in
a
GPSDO, and these efforts have given us a GPS Flash firmware release that
works well with our GPSDO algorithms and TCXOs. We will upgrade all of
the
GPS receivers prior to shipment with this specialized firmware release.
We also have some good news on the 10MHz versions of the board: the
10MHz
DIP-14 TCXOs are scheduled to arrive at our factory in about 5 weeks, so
that will pull-in the delivery schedule significantly. We will continue
to
keep track of the schedule and update you with any changes.
Lastly there has been some fairly intense discussion recently about
counter-fit FTDI serial chips getting permanently disabled by the latest
FTDI
software drivers and thus rendering affected equipment unusable. Many
links
have been published on Time-Nuts so please consult the archives for more
information on this issue.
We use FTDI chips on many of our products, such as the CSAC GPSDO,
Mini-JLT, LC_XO Plus kit, and also this LTE-Lite Eval kit. We are
pleased
to
announce that we have verified with our suppliers that all of our
shipments in
the past and in the future have and will continue to use genuine FTDI
chips.
Close inventory control and counter-fit policies are one advantage of
manufacturing in the USA versus in Asia.
More later,
Bye,
Said
Said Jackson
Jackson Labs Technologies, Inc.
1635 Village Center Circle, Suite 150
Las Vegas, NV 89134
Tel. (408) 596-0600
Fax. (702) 233-1073
__saidjack at jackson-labs.com_ (mailto:saidjack at jackson-labs.com) _
(mailto:saidjack at jackson-labs.com)
__www.jackson-labs.com_ (http://www.jackson-labs.com/) _
(http://www.jackson-labs.com/)
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