[time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions

paul swed paulswedb at gmail.com
Mon Jan 11 10:59:10 EST 2016


Nathan,
Here is the link for the REF0. Dan visits time-nuts every now and again.
http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2015/08/standalone-operation-of-lucent-ks-24361.html
Essentially the arduino fakes out the REF0 to believe a GPS receiver is
attached.
Then any 1PPS will train the reference.
I have built this up using a NEO6 and several different arduinos.
Mini/micro...They all worked. Its silly simple and frankly great solutions
often are silly simple.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 5:40 AM, Nathan Johnson <jdownj at gmail.com> wrote:

> I really appreciate all the help. I really like that Ref0 combination, I
> don't
> see any Ref1s available right now, but you are saying that any decent
> GPS+Arduino can substitute? Should I be looking in the archives for that,
> or is
> there a website?
> Minor clarification to my earlier post about the signal gen, I am aware
> that the
> 8640 won't lock to an external reference. I had intended that to read
> 8640-something or 50-something. I'm watching an 8647 and an 8656b on the
> usual
> site at the moment. That 8662 looks beautiful, but it's a huge investment
> for a
> piece of old gear that has a reputation for being a bit... Cranky and
> opinionated. I have no practical need for that now, so I won't sign up for
> that
> kind of challenge until I do.
> I'm quite familiar with how this stuff multiplies, I have a Tektronix scope
> collection, and have been a lurker on the TekScopes list for about a year.
> There
> is a running joke on that list about "scope acquisition disorder". I'm
> pretty
> sure that I'm infected, but I only have 5 scopes in the house at the
> moment, so
> it's not that bad... Yet!
>
> Nathan KK4REY
> Sent using CloudMagic Email
> [
> https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=7.4.15&pv=9.1&source=email_footer_2
> ]
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 04:28, Discussion of precise time and frequency
> measurement <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
> Good thread everyone.
> Nathan you have received a lot of wisdom and humor today.
> Yes for sub $200 you can be in good shape.
> If lucent remember a Ref0 needs an arduino and a good GPS 1 PPS.
> Though frankly even neo6s play well.
> If a Ref1 it has a GPS in and no need for the arduino. The $175 gets you a
> ref1 and ref0 combo that tie together usually with a cable thats shipped
> with the units.
> Mine were brand spanking new. NOS.
> Good luck.
> To Ron ohhhh yes no shed or anything but the gear builds up. Darn thing is
> this stuff actually last longer then an iPhone99X due out tomorrow I am
> sure.
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Rob Sherwood. <rob at nc0b.com> wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> >
> > Your last paragraph was a hoot. A ham friend of mine recently rented a
> > storage shed to keep all his spare test equipment and parts units.
> Another
> > ham friend used to have four storage units to store all his "stuff". The
> > disease is not curable with either time or antibiotics.
> >
> > My XYL will have to deal with two homes with labs and ham shacks, 7
> > towers, 13 yagis, etc. when I am SK. Need I say more.
> >
> > Rob
> > NC0B
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of paul
> swed
> > Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 1:56 PM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New Member + Basic Questions
> >
> >
> >
> > Nathan,
> > Bob shared a link for the Lucent units and a great amount of detail has
> > been shared on Time-nuts about them. They will do what you want. The Ref0
> > requires a external GPS receiver and another Time-Nuts Arduino. It works
> > really well and the quality of the ref0 seems to be that of the 1pps
> > feeding it.
> > But they also make a no brainer pair that has a ref0 and ref1 that has a
> > built in GPS receiver. They were $175 but they go all over the place in
> > price. But it does just work.
> > Trace-ability is an interesting word around this group. From your
> > description not sure thats really a need. Accept for the oven oscillator
> > they all are great and yes even really good oven oscillators are great
> and
> > can actually be amazing. Not cheap at all though.
> > You describe your counter and sig gen they have a resolution of .1Hz so
> > going further isn't really all that helpful.
> > Now here is the real issue you face and its far more of an issue then you
> > expect.
> > First the generator and oscillator and suddenly you find yourself
> > acquiring more stuff. Maybe a RB, then a Cesium, distribution amplifiers,
> > better antennas. Sound familiar? You are doooomed. Back away real fast.
> > Good luck
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > > On Jan 10, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Nathan Johnson <jdownj at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello All,
> > > > I'm a ham radio operator, for just a few years, and electronics nut
> > > > for
> > > many
> > > > more. I have been reading the archives and trying to learn a bit. I
> > > > am
> > > wanting
> > > > to develop an accurate frequency standard for "lab" and radio use. I
> > > > see
> > > that I
> > > > have 3 basic options that are possible on my budget, a decent
> > > > OCXO-based
> > > device,
> > > > a rubidium standard, and a GPSDO. My current uses are to supply
> > > > accurate
> > > timing
> > > > to a signal generator(not yet purchased, HP 8640/8650-something) and
> > > > a
> > > frequency
> > > > counter(Fluke 1953), mostly used in aligning radios.
> > > > In the near future I am hoping to expand that to a homebrew HF
> > > > transceiver(probably clocking a DDS chip of some sort), and some
> > > > higher frequency(possibly up to 10GHz) transverters.
> > > > So what I have learned so far about each option:
> > > > -OCXO is probably stable enough for what I am trying to do, but by
> > > > itself provides no guarantee of absolute accuracy(I'm looking at the
> > > > microwave operators "weapon of choice", the Isotemp 134-10), has an
> > > > adjustment pin
> > > for a
> > > > tuning voltage, but no idea what an appropriate value is for that
> > > > voltage without access to a more accurate standard. I will probably
> > > > build an
> > > OCXO device
> > > > of some kind anyway as an interim measure while I earn for the money
> > > > to
> > > obtain
> > > > something better, and to validate a distribution amp within the lab
> > etc.
> > > > -Rubidium Standard seems like a very nice idea, but it's still not
> > > traceable in
> > > > terms of absolute accuracy(although the adjustment range of the
> > > > available standards appears to be several orders of magnitude better
> > > > than I am
> > > likely to
> > > > need). The available standards are being re-imported from China,
> > > > with
> > > unknown
> > > > hours or life remaining, and in some cases unknown condition. They
> > > appear to be
> > > > power hogs. A $200 gamble.
> > > > -GPSDOs have many options available, and are referenced to primary
> > > standards.
> > > > Pretty sure this is where I want to go. I'm looking at Item#
> > > 231803015799 on the
> > > > usual auction site, and this seems to be everything I need? I also
> > > looked at
> > > > item# 111514491254, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation
> > > > about
> > > what's
> > > > inside.
> > >
> > > The first item you reference is a Nortel GPSTM with all the “stuff” to
> > > make it work other than the power supply. If you dig into the
> > > archives, there is a *lot* of information on them there.
> > >
> > > The second item is a Chinese Ham built GPSDO without the antenna. It
> > > has the nice feature of being actively developed. If you can read
> > > Chinese, you can tune in to the lists that have information on it.
> > >
> > > Of the two, I’d go for the first one from a US seller that I’ve had
> > > good luck with.
> > >
> > > A somewhat more “do it yourself” option is:
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/221852021307?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPa
> > > geName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> > >
> > > combined with a GPS receiver board. They also are available in a “2
> > > for a bit less” form from the same seller.
> > >
> > > Each item has it’s plusses and minuses. The third item has a pretty
> > > clean
> > > 15 MHz output for microwave use.
> > > All of the 10 MHz outputs are a bit dirty noise wise if you decide to
> > > multiply them up to > 10 GHz. The normal approach in that case is to
> > > lock up a clean 100 to 150 MHz range VCXO to the GPSDO and then
> > > multiply the VCXO output to microwaves.
> > >
> > > All of them are quite adequate to supply a reference to a signal
> > > generator or a counter. All are good enough for normal HF radio use.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Am I missing key points here? Or am I headed on the right path?
> > > Appriciate any
> > > > and all input.
> > > > Nathan KK4REY
> > > >
> > > > Sent using CloudMagic Email
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> > > ]
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