[time-nuts] OT stuffing boards: was GPS interface/prototyping board

[Oz-in-DFW]

I'll second this, and suggest you consider:

 1. Pick and place machines use a lot of floor space (even for the
    "small" ones are more than 1/2 a bench.)
 2. Even the best ones require pretty continuous tuning. If you aren't
    using them continuously each new run is a new and different
    experience.  Often unpleasant for the first few scrapped boards.
 3. You can only place a limited list of parts for a run.  If you have
    one more part than the machine will accomodate, its a second (or
    third, or fourth pass.)
 4. They are all high maintenance in addition to requiring tuning. A lot
    of the maintenance is based on calendar, not operation time.  Even
    and idle machine requires time if you actually want to use it
    eventually.
 5. Most are closed software loops. You work around their poor (or un)
    documented formats and bugs.
 6. There are really cheap small batch assembly houses coming online
    that will do under 10 units. See Macrofab, PC:NG, Small Batch
    Assembly are fairly quick turns.

If all you are doing is protos, hand placement, mylar solder stencils
(see Oshstencils and others) and a hacked toaster oven are a good
solution. The $500 Chinese reflow ovens seem to require more (re)work
that a $50 toaster oven.  If you use stencils to place the solder, part
placement is as fast (or faster) than through hole parts. I have to use
a microscope.  I'm shaky enough that  may need to built some Waldoes
soon.  ;-)

I just did six moderately complex boards (no fine pitch parts) and that
was 2-3 too many for me.

Solder stencils make **all** the difference.

Oz, in DFW

On 6/23/2016 6:21 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> You can indeed get a pick and place for under a thousand dollars. I wold not use one of them, but they do exist. It all depends on how much of an “advantage” you want over a hand place approach. A half way decent screen printer will run $500. Some sort of reflow setup will be a couple hundred. You can go cheap on the printer and get it down to $100 or so. A rebuilt toaster oven will run $20 or less. It all is a matter of how much hassle / how tight pitch you want to deal with.
>
> Bob
>
>> On Jun 23, 2016, at 6:38 PM, Bob Stewart <bob at evoria.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Bob et al,
>>
>> This is about what I expected, but I had to ask.  I wonder how long it'll take for that several thousand bucks for a pick-n-place machine to become a couple hundred?  That would be the final hurdle for the tiny electronics business.
>>
>> Anyway, I've had my say and we can let this die.  Thanks for the responses!
>>
>> Bob

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Oz
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