[time-nuts] hm H Maser

[Ole Petter Ronningen]

Not sure how relevant that particular example is. PHM on Galileo was new
science (at least the sapphire loaded cavity), and *very* different
reliability engineering.

AHM's are nothing new, the science hace been done, the construction is
known, down to exact drawings and circuit diagrams. There are numbers from
1982 that can possibly be used as a startingpoint for estimating an amateur
project in https://library.nrao.edu/public/memos/vlba/main/VLBA_65.pdf

As a side note, I am also not convinced that sourcing the fused quartz
teflon coated bulbs would be a show stopper for a limited number (<5) of
masers, I for one have one on my shelf. It is quite possible that old bulbs
for previous designs exists with the current manufacturers that they might
be willing to part with.

They are also still manufactured, Vremya or one of the others might be
willing to sell them - although I have no idea about the cost.

As another side note, on a trip to Switzerland I was allowed a glimpse of a
couple of the PHM's for Galileo in person. Impressive.

Ole

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 2:18 PM, ewkehren via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com>
wrote:

> Do we know what the PHM development for Galileo cost?
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung tabletBob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:Hi
>
> > On Jan 10, 2017, at 2:45 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
> drkirkby at kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Once 9 Jan 2017 12:59, "Bob Camp" <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Ok here are some rough numbers:
> >>
> >>> On Jan 9, 2017, at 4:35 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
> > drkirkby at kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>> It would be interesting to see your breakdown of the costs and man
> hours
> >>> for an H2 maser. I suspect that others would find cheaper/faster
> > solutions.
> >>
> >> $100M for the H2
> >>
> >> $25M for the Rb
> >
> > With all due respect,  and I apprectiate you have a good knowledge of
> this
> > field, but that's not a breakdown of costs or man hours I wanted to see,
> > but a cost which appears to be plucked from the air.
>
> Hardly plucked from the air. The last Rb design that I was involved with
> was
> roughly 5X that expensive.
>
> >
> > There's a BIG difference between a volunteer effort where
> >
> > * Salaries are not paid
> > * Items of test equipment are likely to be borrowed or people provide
> > access to them for no charge etc,
> > * Academics are likely to provide consultancy for free, in return for
> being
> > on papers published.
> > * Software licenses could probably be obtained free,  or enough people
> get
> > trials.
>
> That’s where the 5:1 cost reduction comes from.
>
> >
> > compared to a commercial company building a maser where
> >
> > * Salaries are paid
> > * All equipment is purchased new
> > * Bench power supplies with 3.5 digit displays are sent out for
> calibration
> > each year.
> > *  No outside body will do anything except at a commercial rate.
> > * Flights are booked for meetings which could be done over the Internet.
> > * High end software licenses are huge.
> >
> >> $500M for the fountain.
> >
> > But on what basis do you arrive at that figure?
>
> The numbers that the people who have done it come up with when you talk to
> them.
>
> >
> >> To get sponsorship for anything remotely close to those numbers, you
> >> need to have some massively good credentials.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > Yes agreed at $500M. But someone like Tom, who does have massively good
> > credentials, could perhaps get $500,000, and perhaps that wisely spent
> > could get a fountain built.  Without knowing how you arrive at $500M, it
> is
> > not possible for anyone to look at ways of shaving that cost.
>
>
> This is *not* a cheap field to be doing things in ….
>
> Bob
>
> >
> > The Lovell Telescope at Jodrell Bank in the UK was built on a shoestring
> > budget. It was at the time the world's  largest steerable radio
> telephone.
> > Half a century later only 2 larger ones have been built.
> >
> > Maybe I am too nieve.
> >
> > Dave.
> > _______________________________________________
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