[time-nuts] Bicentennial GOES satellite clock

Bob kb8tq kb8tq at n1k.org
Sun Aug 12 19:48:52 EDT 2018


Hi

Well…. there’s also the solar flare that vaporizes the planet earth :) 

A flare big enough to take out all the sat systems would disrupt a lot more than just navigation.
It also probably is big enough to take out HF radio gear as well. It takes a *lot* of energy to 
permanently take out a sat system. Hour or two disruptions … sure … total destruction, that’s 
getting into crazy levels.

Bob

> On Aug 12, 2018, at 7:29 PM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> How exactly does one get submillisecond time of day precision with a
> sextant?
> (even if sticks and pebbles are thrown into the mix)
> I'd say more like ~1 sec precision on a really fine day, it the sextant is
> wielded by
> a skilled and practiced operator who has apriori knowledge of his location.
> 
> And what about standard frequency dissemination?
> 
> I'm also upset about the notion of time distribution and transfer by
> internet.  Now
> there's a fine example of a system that could be brought down by a single
> competent
> hacker!
> 
> And all it takes is one really good solar flare to bring down GPS (and
> Glonass and
> the others) semipermanently, if the reports I read are true.
> 
> I argue that instead of shutting down distribution avenues, NIST should be
> making
> additional ones available.
> 
> A lot has been said lately about how rapidly our technology is exploding.
> But think
> about how much of that is critically dependent on precision time transfer
> over the
> planet, and how much longer it would take mankind to recover from (insert
> your favorite
> disaster here) without good time and frequency transfer still up and
> working.
> 
> Dana
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 2:06 PM, djl <djl at montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> all you need for a once a day noon fix is a level surface, a stick, and
>> some pebbles.
>> Don
>> 
>> 
>> On 2018-08-12 08:29, Scott McGrath wrote:
>> 
>>> And with dependence on GPS we have created a serious vulnerability as
>>> too many critical pieces of infrastructure are dependent on a SINGLE
>>> precision timing and positioning system.
>>> 
>>> I can use a sextant and have a copy of Bowditch.    But they only work
>>> on clear days and nights.
>>> 
>>> if GPS goes down for any reason.   Whats the backup solution?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 2:25 PM, Lester Veenstra <m0ycm at veenstras.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Used to work with Wayne on two time transfer via satellite
>>> Great guy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lester B Veenstra  K1YCM  MØYCM  W8YCM   6Y6Y
>>> lester at veenstras.com
>>> 
>>> Physical and US Postal Addresses
>>> 5 Shrine Club Drive (Physical)
>>> HC84 452 Stable Ln (RFD USPS Mail)
>>> Keyser WV 26726
>>> GPS: 39.336826 N  78.982287 W (Google)
>>> GPS: 39.33682 N  78.9823741 W (GPSDO)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Telephones:
>>> Home:                     +1-304-289-6057
>>> US cell                    +1-304-790-9192
>>> Jamaica cell:           +1-876-456-8898
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Tom
>>> Van Baak
>>> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:19 AM
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bicentennial GOES satellite clock
>>> 
>>> Tim,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for posting that photo. That space age 1976 GOES clock caught our
>>> eyes when the paper came out in 2005 (see also pages 11, 12, 13):
>>> 
>>> https://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/2013.pdf
>>> 
>>> There was quite a bit of traffic on time-nuts around 2005 when the GOES
>>> satellite time service was turned off (and back on, and off, and on, and
>>> finally off for good). That left many of us with piles of 468 MHz GOES
>>> receivers, antennae, clocks and led to efforts to re-create the RF signals
>>> in-home so that GOES clocks would still work. There was even a commercial
>>> G2G (GPS to GOES) translator.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I asked around about that one-off bicentennial clock in the photo
>>> and neither the authors, NIST, or Smithsonian knows where it ended up.
>>> There's tons of information on the GOES satellite system and GOES clocks
>>> in
>>> the NIST T&F archives:
>>> 
>>> https://tf.nist.gov/general/publications.htm
>>> 
>>> Best to search title for GOES, or search author for Hanson. It's a
>>> fascinating glimpse into the recent past. Yes, it's sad that GOES (and
>>> Omega, and Loran-C) aren't operational anymore, but GPS does such a better
>>> job. Plus we now have cable, WiFi, cell phones, the internet, Iridium,
>>> etc.
>>> 
>>> If you wanted to build your own Bicentennial GOES Clock, the design was
>>> published, including source code -- for its i4004 (!!) CPU. If you have
>>> even
>>> one minute to spare, see attached image and click on these two PDF's:
>>> 
>>> "Satellite Controlled Digital Clock System (patent)"
>>> https://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1791.pdf
>>> 
>>> "A Satellite-Controlled Digital Clock (NBS TN-681)"
>>> https://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/452.pdf
>>> 
>>> /tvb
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tim Shoppa" <tshoppa at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>>> <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 7:29 PM
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Bicentennial GOES satellite clock
>>> 
>>> 
>>> See the groovy picture at
>>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4847573/figure/
>>>> f9-j110-2lom/
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone knows the whereabouts or history of the bicentennial GOES time
>>>> clock display, please let me know!
>>>> 
>>>> Tim N3QE
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> Dr. Don Latham
>> PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
>> VOX: 406-626-4304
>> 
>> 
>> 
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