[time-nuts] WWV and legal issues

Bob kb8tq kb8tq at n1k.org
Wed Aug 29 20:30:58 EDT 2018


Hi

One of the basic disconnects here seems to be the idea that radio was the “best thing” before
GPS came along. In fact that’s not really how it worked. Time was traced / coordinated by hauling
atomic clocks on airplanes as the “best thing” before satellite systems came along….That was true 
for decades...

Bob

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 7:54 PM, Scott McGrath <scmcgrath at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> A DIY radio distribution system is not secure and traceable to NIST/USNO even if the source is GPS.
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 7:52 PM, Scott McGrath <scmcgrath at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Excellent point on LEGAL time,  The problem is as always is GPS is the new shiny object.
> 
> You mentioned earth based hostile actors.   But a really large solar flare or CME has the potential to take out or severely degrade ALL the GNSS systems.  
> 
> Something on the order of the ‘Carrington Event’ or the flare in 1989 which took out power to much of Canada.   
> 
> Things like this are why we need terrestrial time distribution systems like eLORAN which by its nature is resistant to both man made and natural interference.
> 
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
> 
> Yo Dudes! 
> WWV and all its variations distribute what in the USA is the legal standard of time (from USNO) and frequency (NIST).
> If one is running a freq cal service IIRC it is a legal requirement to be able to have traceability to WWV.
> 
> If one was to rely on other sources, one has no guarantee that it 1. It is as accurate as claimed and 2. It can't be *diddled* with accidentally or deliberately.
> Although GPSDO's are very good and popular, they come from satellites that are vulnerable to damage from earth based resources.
> When your time and frequency standard(s) is under control on your own physical territory then they stand or fail on their own. 
> After the atom bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, one of the major inventors of the bomb (I don't remember who) went to see US president Harry Truman and essentially told him that the scientists who developed the bomb should have a say of how or when it should be used.
> Truman is reported to have said for him to leave his office and told an aid that was responsible for his schedule to "never in hell let that (or any other) scientist  come to his office to influence American defense policy."
> Considering its status from both a scientific and political perspective, IMNSHO it will go on as before.
> To explain the political. No government official wants to see China or the Russian federation tell the world quote: See, the USA can't be trusted for something as important and simple as frequency and time.  However we are your friends who you can trust. Unquote.
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a case of practical use of WWV albeit over 50 years a go the fundamentals are still valid today.
> At Karamursel Air station TUSLOG 234 I was assigned to the base receiver site.  Our base had to purposes.  to   
> 
> 
> 
> 
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