[time-nuts] Raw phase data of super-5065

Bob kb8tq kb8tq at n1k.org
Fri Jun 8 10:19:23 EDT 2018


Hi

Having run tens of thousands of standards on these sorts of tests … the one that is more temperature / pressure sensitive *will*
show up as having worse long term stability.  

1) If your environment swings +/- 1C over 48 hours.

2) If unit A is 1 ppb 0 to 50 ( = 20 ppt / C)

3) If unit B is -0.2 ppb 0 to 50C ( = -4 ppt / C)

4) Both will have degraded stability on a plot that shows 2 days of data

5) Unit A is “at spec” for the 5065, unit B is better than the rated performance. After many decades .. who knows what the spec is ….

Unit B will show up as 5X better on a long term test than unit A with both in *exactly* the same environment.  Holding 1 C over 2 days
is doing well even for some ( but not all ) environmental chambers. 

I’m by no means claiming that this *is* the only source of the difference. The point is that the temperature stability rating on these 
devices is not very good. They are quite temperature sensitive. There are a lot of OCXO’s out there that do much better on stability
than a 5065 temperature wise. 

Bob

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 10:07 AM, timeok at timeok.it wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This test requires that the two Rubidiun be installed in the same cabinet so they are subject to the same temperature and atmospheric pressure.
> Acquisitions were made simultaneously.To confirm the data collected, the same test was repeated in another site with two different HP5065, one modified in B or "supe" and the other unmodified.
>  
> The results were very similar, that is, both the Super version has a worse lmedium term Adev than the unmodified version.
> All this suggests that the modification with the addition of the 780nm filter worsens the medium term stability of the HP5065.
> 
> Therefore I would tend to exclude that the results obtained depend on the different sensitiveness towards atmospheric pressure or to the variations of the environmental temperature.
> 
> It would be interesting that for further confirmation of what I have deduced other people could carry out the same tests in the medium and long term Adev stability.
> 
> Luciano
> www.timeok.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  	
> Da "Bob kb8tq" kb8tq at n1k.org
> A "Luciano Paramithiotti" timeok at timeok.it,"Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts at febo.com
> Cc
> Data Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:02:34 -0400
> Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Raw phase data of super-5065
> 
> Hi
>  
> Ok, so this question should not come as a great surprise: Does one of the 5065’s have about 3X the temperature
> sensitivity of the other? ( or pressure or humidity ).
>  
> Bob
>  
>  
>  
> > On Jun 8, 2018, at 8:05 AM, timeok at timeok.it wrote:
> >
> >
> > Here a ten days simultaneously run of the A and B version compared with my HP Z3816A GPSDO.
> > Luciano
> >
> >
> > Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
> > A kb8tq at n1k.org
> > Cc "time-nuts" time-nuts at febo.com
> > Data Wed, 6 Jun 2018 08:18:27 +0200
> > Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Raw phase data of super-5065
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > certainly the environmental effects are significant and it is precisely for this reason that
> > acquisitions have been made simultaneously on two 5065, one modified and the other not.
> > To verify the results the same measures were taken with another pair of 5065, one modified and the other not.
> > This second test was carried out at another site 300Km from the first one.
> > Both tests showed a better and more consistent medium/long term ADEV than the unmodified HP5065A.
> > I want to clarify that these measures have the objective of verifying the medium / long term stability and not the short term stability of the Super version I agree it is improved..
> > Luciano
> >
> >
> > Da "Bob kb8tq" kb8tq at n1k.org
> > A "Luciano Paramithiotti" timeok at timeok.it,"Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts at febo.com
> > Cc
> > Data Tue, 5 Jun 2018 10:05:34 -0400
> > Oggetto Re: [time-nuts] Raw phase data of super-5065
> > Hi
> >
> > It is pretty well known that without “help” ( beyond the filter stuff on the super) the 5065 has fairly poor temperature
> > stability and somewhat variable response to pressure and humidity. Taking two samples right off the production line
> > likely would have given you different long term data as a result.
> >
> > If you are going to the trouble of watching these devices for a long time, monitor temperature, pressure and humidity.
> > I suspect you will find correlations ….
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >> On Jun 5, 2018, at 5:44 AM, timeok at timeok.it wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Attila,
> >> I am doing the long therm stability test on a couple of HP5065, one original A type, the second B or "super" compared with my best long therm stability, a GPSDO HPz3816A.
> >> This test will be 30 days long. It is a second test, with a second couple of HP5065A/B, to verify the long therm stability of both the version.
> >>
> >> Up to now the data available for version B or "super" only concerned the improvement of phase noise.
> >>
> >> From the first results it seems that the HP5065A is more stable within 30days than the modified version with the filter.
> >> It must be considered that the short-term stability of 5065 is better than the GPSDO / TICC up to 10-80k sec then, in this test configuration the valid data will be beyond these values.
> >> The results will be ready within 28 days and I will be happy to share them in order to have everyone's opinion.
> >> Regards,
> >> Luciano
> >>
> >>
> >> Da "time-nuts" time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
> >> A "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts at febo.com
> >> Cc
> >> Data Mon, 4 Jun 2018 10:11:50 +0200
> >> Oggetto [time-nuts] Raw phase data of super-5065
> >> Hoi zäme!
> >>
> >> Would one (preferably multiple) of the owners of a super-5065 be so kind
> >> and share the raw phase data of an super-5065 against a stable reference
> >> with me? The longer the data trace, the better.
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >>
> >> Attila Kinali
> >>
> >> --
> >> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> >> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> >> use without that foundation.
> >> -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
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