[time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

Sat May 19 19:49:26 UTC 2018

Bob
I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
Just saying. Neither right or wrong.

Regards
Paul

On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>
> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
> shipping
> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
> reasons
> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
> Cs
> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>
> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
> certified
> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
> with your
> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
> come out
> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
> standards.
> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
> standard.
> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>
> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
> months to get
> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
> label on
> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
> is needed
> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
> the fees
> involved ….)
>
> So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
> hits
> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
> actually
> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
> is
> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is
> flashing.
>
> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
> standard, ( without
> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
> sorts of nonsense.
> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
> to get delivered.
> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably
> is not going to get
> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>
> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
> of it getting
> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
> that point
> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>
> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bobs
> > Comments are on target.
> > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
> > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
> > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
> not
> > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
> to
> > recover the tube.
> >
> > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
> The
> > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
> > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
> out
> > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
> > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
> > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
> > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
> The
> > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
> > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
> >
> > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
> > are pretty much dead.
> >
> > As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
> > current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
> > So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
> > Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
> > asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago
> when I
> > picked up my 2nd 5061.
> > I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely
> gets
> > a discount we don't.
> >
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that
> it's
> >>> possible
> >>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not,
> I'm
> >>> terribly
> >>
> >> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before
> >> you could do
> >> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic
> >> standard made by
> >> anybody that does something like that.
> >>
> >>
> >>> surprised and disappointed.
> >>>
> >>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until
> it
> >>> reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?
> >>
> >>
> >> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I
> have
> >> indeed proven that
> >> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A
> “standard
> >> grade” tube should
> >> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model
> tube
> >> from what era and
> >> who made the specific tube.
> >>
> >> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones
> (
> >> = what we play with)
> >> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics.
> They
> >> may not all be made
> >> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs
> >> standards with dead
> >> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out
> of ….
> >>
> >> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I
> did
> >> that the bill was
> >> about $38,000. That included them putting it in.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Dana
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi
> >>>>
> >>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in
> the
> >>>> tube. You can
> >>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you
> is
> >>>> that the fuel
> >>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob
> >>>>
> >>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul at bicknells.f2s.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Doug
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and
> >>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of
> Doug
> >>>> Millar
> >>>>> via time-nuts
> >>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
> >>>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> >>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.
> >> The
> >>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
> >> then.
> >>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
> >>>> tested it
> >>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The
> unit
> >>>> is
> >>>>> in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long
> >> Beach,
> >>>> CA.
> >>>>> 90806
> >>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
> >>>> resistance
> >>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very
> >> reasonable.
> >>>>>    Thanks, Doug K6JEY
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----
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> >>>>>
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