[time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

paul swed paulswedb at gmail.com
Sat May 19 15:56:18 EDT 2018


Bob
Did go looking on the internet.
I had quite a laugh because indeed our friends at Amazon and Ebay will
happily sell you a 1 gram vile of Cesium. $226.
By the way thats free shipping. Chuckle.
No mention of shipping issues.
Letting this part of the thread drop.
Someone gets a nice reference if it works.
Regards
Paul

On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 3:49 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bob
> I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
> There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
> I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
> Just saying. Neither right or wrong.
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>>
>> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
>> shipping
>> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
>> reasons
>> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
>> Cs
>> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>>
>> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
>> certified
>> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
>> with your
>> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
>> come out
>> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
>> standards.
>> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
>> standard.
>> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>>
>> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
>> months to get
>> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
>> label on
>> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
>> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
>> is needed
>> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
>> the fees
>> involved ….)
>>
>> So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
>> hits
>> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
>> actually
>> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
>> is
>> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign
>> is flashing.
>>
>> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
>> standard, ( without
>> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
>> sorts of nonsense.
>> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
>> to get delivered.
>> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It
>> probably is not going to get
>> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>>
>> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
>> of it getting
>> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
>> that point
>> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>>
>> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Bobs
>> > Comments are on target.
>> > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
>> > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
>> > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
>> not
>> > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
>> to
>> > recover the tube.
>> >
>> > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
>> The
>> > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
>> > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
>> out
>> > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
>> > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
>> > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
>> > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
>> The
>> > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
>> > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
>> >
>> > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
>> > are pretty much dead.
>> >
>> > As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
>> > current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
>> > So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
>> > Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
>> > asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago
>> when I
>> > picked up my 2nd 5061.
>> > I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely
>> gets
>> > a discount we don't.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Paul
>> > WB8TSL
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that
>> it's
>> >>> possible
>> >>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not,
>> I'm
>> >>> terribly
>> >>
>> >> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before
>> >> you could do
>> >> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic
>> >> standard made by
>> >> anybody that does something like that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> surprised and disappointed.
>> >>>
>> >>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run
>> until it
>> >>> reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I
>> have
>> >> indeed proven that
>> >> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A
>> “standard
>> >> grade” tube should
>> >> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model
>> tube
>> >> from what era and
>> >> who made the specific tube.
>> >>
>> >> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older
>> ones (
>> >> = what we play with)
>> >> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics.
>> They
>> >> may not all be made
>> >> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs
>> >> standards with dead
>> >> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out
>> of ….
>> >>
>> >> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I
>> did
>> >> that the bill was
>> >> about $38,000. That included them putting it in.
>> >>
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Dana
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hi
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in
>> the
>> >>>> tube. You can
>> >>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you
>> is
>> >>>> that the fuel
>> >>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bob
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul at bicknells.f2s.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Doug
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and
>> >>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of
>> Doug
>> >>>> Millar
>> >>>>> via time-nuts
>> >>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
>> >>>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>> >>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and
>> manual.
>> >> The
>> >>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
>> >> then.
>> >>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
>> >>>> tested it
>> >>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The
>> unit
>> >>>> is
>> >>>>> in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long
>> >> Beach,
>> >>>> CA.
>> >>>>> 90806
>> >>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
>> >>>> resistance
>> >>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very
>> >> reasonable.
>> >>>>>    Thanks, Doug K6JEY
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----
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>> >>>> 05/19/18
>> >>>>>
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