[time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

Bob kb8tq kb8tq at n1k.org
Sat May 19 16:03:55 EDT 2018


Hi

Well I *can* say that when you ship a 5071 back to be re-tubed, you *do* 
run into the Cs shipping rule. HP did a bunch of stuff to demonstrate that
there was near zero chance of a problem. Ultimately it had zero impact on
how the rules were written. 

I’m by no means trying to tell people not to ship Cs standards. I just want 
them to be aware of what the might run into. It’s not the risk from the Cs
that is the issue to me …..

Bob

> On May 19, 2018, at 3:49 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Bob
> I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
> There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
> I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
> Just saying. Neither right or wrong.
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> 
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>> 
>> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
>> shipping
>> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
>> reasons
>> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
>> Cs
>> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>> 
>> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
>> certified
>> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
>> with your
>> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
>> come out
>> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
>> standards.
>> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
>> standard.
>> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>> 
>> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
>> months to get
>> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
>> label on
>> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
>> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
>> is needed
>> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
>> the fees
>> involved ….)
>> 
>> So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
>> hits
>> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
>> actually
>> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
>> is
>> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is
>> flashing.
>> 
>> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
>> standard, ( without
>> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
>> sorts of nonsense.
>> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
>> to get delivered.
>> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably
>> is not going to get
>> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>> 
>> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
>> of it getting
>> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
>> that point
>> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>> 
>> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bobs
>>> Comments are on target.
>>> The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
>>> stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
>>> This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
>> not
>>> clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
>> to
>>> recover the tube.
>>> 
>>> In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
>> The
>>> beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
>>> The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
>> out
>>> like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
>>> noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
>>> Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
>>> current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
>> The
>>> tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
>>> much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
>>> 
>>> The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
>>> are pretty much dead.
>>> 
>>> As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
>>> current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
>>> So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
>>> Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
>>> asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago
>> when I
>>> picked up my 2nd 5061.
>>> I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely
>> gets
>>> a discount we don't.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Paul
>>> WB8TSL
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that
>> it's
>>>>> possible
>>>>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not,
>> I'm
>>>>> terribly
>>>> 
>>>> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before
>>>> you could do
>>>> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic
>>>> standard made by
>>>> anybody that does something like that.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> surprised and disappointed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until
>> it
>>>>> reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I
>> have
>>>> indeed proven that
>>>> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A
>> “standard
>>>> grade” tube should
>>>> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model
>> tube
>>>> from what era and
>>>> who made the specific tube.
>>>> 
>>>> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones
>> (
>>>> = what we play with)
>>>> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics.
>> They
>>>> may not all be made
>>>> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs
>>>> standards with dead
>>>> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out
>> of ….
>>>> 
>>>> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I
>> did
>>>> that the bill was
>>>> about $38,000. That included them putting it in.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dana
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in
>> the
>>>>>> tube. You can
>>>>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you
>> is
>>>>>> that the fuel
>>>>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul at bicknells.f2s.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Doug
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and
>>>>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of
>> Doug
>>>>>> Millar
>>>>>>> via time-nuts
>>>>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
>>>>>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.
>>>> The
>>>>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
>>>> then.
>>>>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
>>>>>> tested it
>>>>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The
>> unit
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long
>>>> Beach,
>>>>>> CA.
>>>>>>> 90806
>>>>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary
>>>>>> resistance
>>>>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very
>>>> reasonable.
>>>>>>>   Thanks, Doug K6JEY
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> 
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