[time-nuts] Lots of Off Topic discussion

Bob kb8tq kb8tq at n1k.org
Sat Sep 1 20:24:33 EDT 2018


Hi

I most certainly *have* seen an NTP server that ran off of WWVB and relayed 
the result to the internet. The fun part was that they had entered the “delay” 
number into their config file with the wrong sign on it (or there was a bug in 
the NTP code at that time). The result was that they were …. errr …. a bit 
off time.

So yes, you *can* hook NTP into WWVB, it has been done. It is a way (if you get
the signs right ….) to get into millisecond(s) level accuracy.

Bob

> On Sep 1, 2018, at 2:02 PM, Peter Laws <plaws0 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 9:15 AM David G. McGaw
> <david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> 
>> available methods of time dissemination.  I am very concerned that
>> factions of NIST consider that this should no longer be part of their
>> mission.
> 
> 
> 1) WWV* systems are not critical to anything I have found other than
> WWVB being used to keep "atomic clocks" in sync and updated for DST.
> I've asked in many places but other than two recent papers that used
> WWV HF signals with the Long Wavelength Array to do some ionospheric
> measurements I can't find any evidence that the signals are critical
> to anything in science.
> 
> 2) Anyone that *needs* accurate time to within a few ms of UTC uses
> NTP.  Anyone who thinks they need more precision than that can look at
> PTP (usually deciding that NTP is plenty good once they see what it
> will cost them for PTP).  All current consumer operating systems (OS
> X, iOS, Android, Windows, etc) have some form of NTP client built in.
> 
> 3) Is no one familiar with the US federal budgeting process?  Really?
> The executive branch (Commerce is a cabinet-level department therein)
> submits to the legislative branch the budget for what they claim they
> will need for the upcoming fiscal year.  This is made up from
> estimates of each cabinet member (and others) who get their numbers
> from the various institutions within their silos (e.g., NIST under
> Commerce).  Because no department head wants their budget cut, they
> ensure that items put up for "cutting" are ones that the public is
> most likely to complain (to congress) about.  A quick google didn't
> tell me when the executive branch last submitted a budget that was
> actually in balance but I'm sure it's been 35 years at least despite
> the alleged cutting.  And it doesn't matter because the executive
> budget is routinely ignored by the body that is actually in charge of
> spending, congress.
> 
> 4) I don't think I've ever seen an NTP server that used WWV* as their
> reference clock (it's listed in the output of the query command)
> because GPS is ubiquitous.  "Yeah, but Carrington!"  I am not certain,
> but given that in the US, the Navstar GPS is a US military system run
> by the US military for US military purposes (which happens to have a
> signal available to civilians) that the designers were not only aware
> of solar physics but used that awareness to make the GPS system as
> resilient as they could to the potential effects of CMEs and flares.
> So for me, the "GPS COULD FAIL!" argument does nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather read about Earth tides affecting time measurements.  Or
> proper care and feeding of your Cs oscillator.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Peter Laws | N5UWY | plaws plaws net | Travel by Train!
> 
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