[time-nuts] eLORAN will be on the air GRI 99600

[paul swed]

Jim
Thanks for the insights. Oh I am not selling it for emp. I am simply saying
no would be general wants a rusty old steel tower as a career booster. I
remember when LORAN C was shut down the president said he was saving $36M a
year. Thats drop in the old bucket. I also remember the LORAN C antennas on
mobile tower sites for timing along with GPS.
Thanks again Jim.
Fire up that LORAN C receiver and see what you can hear.
Regards
Paul

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 5:41 PM jimlux <jimlux at earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 8/5/20 12:40 PM, Tom Knox wrote:
> > Hi Paul and Magnus;
> > Not to mention one space EMP would kill all the Sat systems, where a
> ground base system even if affected would be easy to access for repair.
>
> The vulnerability of GNSS systems to EMP attacks is not all that high -
> GPS is, after all, a DoD essential system, and lives in a ridiculously
> high radiation environment in MEO - They're also hard to neutrons (based
> on published specs for components in the GNSS satellites).
>
> In most scenarios, LEO satellites get hammered, MEO and GEO not so much.
>
> https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a531197.pdf
>
> "GPS and GEO satellites are threatened only by the very high yield (~ 10
> Mt) detonations of our trial set."
>
> I'll note that the largest the US has detonated in space are the Teak
> and Orange shots 3.8Mt (at <100km), and only Starfish Prime (1.4Mt) at
> 400km cased significant problems.
>
> The usual "use case" for EMP is to affect aircraft and ground based
> assets, and the burst height is low (so the air around the burst is
> denser - more particle interactions = more current = more field) -
> conversely, this reduces the flux at 20,000 km (where GPS is) and
> 36,000km (GEO)
>
> Ultimately, it's that your victim is a Long, long ways away from
> whatever the phenomenon is.
>
> I've been doing a lot of analysis on EMI/RFI effects on precision timing
> in GEO+1000km - we are looking at bursts from the sun, and timing it
> with GNSS satellites.  Things that I agonized over (high power shortwave
> broadcasters radiating 500kW into a 24dBi curtain array) in my LEO
> satellite at 500km just become a non-issue at 37,000 km.  Inverse square
> law really helps.
>
>
> Anyway, that DTIC report will give you plenty to geek out over.
>
>
> Yes, there would be significant disruption in timing accuracy due to the
> ionized particles - I'm not sure if dual frequency would be enough to
> compensate.
>
>
> I think alternate timing and nav systems are good idea, but selling it
> as "GPS will be knocked out by EMP" isn't going to get you very far.
>
>
> > Cheers;
> >
> > Tom Knox
> >
> > actast at hotmail.com
> >
> > "Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of Justice" Both
> MLK and Albert Einstein
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-bounces at lists.febo.com> on behalf of paul
> swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:21 AM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] eLORAN will be on the air GRI 99600
> >
> > Hi Magnus been a while since have emailed.
> > Its one site that was a test transmitter. Its in New Jersey, USA.
> > The goal of the testing I believe is to establish the viability of an
> > alternate PNT reference to GPS. Additionally the ability to communicate
> > some level of message broadcast. This should be identical to proposals I
> > have heard of in Europe.
> > But I have no direct relationship to any of this. Like you, a very
> > interested observer and hope that eLORAN wins the battle.
> > Unfortunately there are many alternate proposals such as using other
> > satellites. Hmmm if I wanted to advance my career in the Air Force or
> Space
> > Force (Yes thats actually real now).
> > Would I select the lowly reliable as heck eLORAN at sub $100 M/year to
> > operate. Or the glorious space based proposals in $B region. Never mind
> > that at least 3 countries now have demonstrated killer satellites.
> > Sorry for that editorial.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:04 AM Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.se>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Do you know that they would do test with two actual transmitter sites?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Magnus
> >>
> >> On 2020-08-05 16:00, paul swed wrote:
> >>> Hello to fellow time nuts.
> >>> Warm up those old Austrons. eLORAN out of New Jersey has been on the
> air
> >>> intermittently prior to a test run next week. Due to the storm they
> have
> >>> lost power and should have it back today or tomorrow.
> >>> The intention will be on the air operation till the 20th. That's a long
> >>> run. Nice.
> >>> Seems the Austron 2100s can be had for reasonable money these days
> also.
> >>> Enjoy.
> >>> Paul
> >>> WB8TSL
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